[M] Questioning Self Identity
#1
Marked it mature just for the mention of private parts.

Okay, so it took me awhile to gather my thoughts and do as Sie suggested and post here. I know there are/have been those here that belong to the trans* community. I've been questioning myself and what I am so I would like to get some help figuring it out.

I'm physically female but I hate it. I've always hated myself and my body. I absolutely hate boobs and have never wanted to have them. For as long as I can remember I've always wanted a penis. I hate being a girl and pretty much everything about it but I can't say I would be happy as a guy. But then again I can never pinpoint a time when I was happy. I don't feel a normal range of emotions so I don't know if that ties into it or not.

Thing is I don't care about what gender pronoun is used so I don't know if this makes it just a body issue or if it truly is a gender identity issue. All of my little kid pictures look like a boy so I looked really weird in those frilly pink dresses. But I kinda liked that I looked like a boy and wished I had remained that way. I keep my hair cut short in a boy cut. Actually when I first did it my Dad jokingly introduced me as his son Skylar and I actually kinda liked that even though I know he was just teasing me.

People around where I live don't accept alternative lifestyles, tattoos and piercings, or even interracial relationships so I have no outlet where I live to speak about any of this. There are no LGBT groups or any of that. But yeah, I've always hated who and what I am but have only recently started to question why I feel that way.

I've always been strangely attracted to gay men, or even bisexual or pansexual men so long as they were with another man. I just like seeing a man with another man and have wished I could be a part of that but I can't since I don't have the right parts.

I just... I need help figuring this all out. So if anyone has any tips or input on what I might be then please let me know. Since I've been in therapy I've been trying to figure myself out and trying to get on the path to being happy but it is hard to do when I hate everything about myself.
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#2
What you describe sounds a lot like dysphoria. It's not something that I've experienced since I'm cisgender (much as I'm "meh" about gender I am comfortable with my body/being called a girl), but... I don't know what advice I can give you because of that. All I can say is that whatever makes you feel comfortable that I can possibly do, I'll do it, whether it's using a male pronoun if you think it might help or just listening to you if you need to vent about it.

I think there are a couple trans men on this site that might be able to help a bit more and talk about things like fighting dysphoria, binding which might help you with your chest area, etc. I'd look for other online communities too if there aren't any in your area. I know Reddit probably has subreddits that you can look around and talk on.

All I can say is that I support you 100% and am here for you. <3
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#3
Well, I've mentioned this a couple times, and I'm a transman. Pretty sure Raze knows that. :p And I spent a long time ignoring it and trying to be a good daughter and a good girl and.. It was too hard for me. I couldn't, because I wasn't. I'm much happier using a male name and he/him pronouns and knowing I'll transition one day with the love of my life by my side. It's pretty validating having a super gay boyfriend who sees you as an attractive man, y'know? I came to accept that. I also felt the whole "I'm attracted to the idea of men being with men and men that may not be attracted to me, but who I wished would be."

And I'd say that is exactly dysphoria, as Raze said, likely made much worse by generalized self-esteem issues. It's a long, hard road, but it gets better. I promise it does; short hair and a binder and male clothing does wonders. And sports bras; much comfier than regular bras regardless.

But yes, you mentioned not caring about your pronouns. And that might just be that; you don't care about your pronouns. Some people regardless of identity are like that. Or you may be nonbinary, likely masculine nonbinary. Which is a-okay, too.
http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Nonbinary_gender
This is a pretty good explanation of nonbinary.

So it might not be as simple as "I'm a boy;" and you can realize over time that you're not one thing or another. Gender identity and sexuality can be super fluid; I identified as genderfluid (sometimes I felt like a boy and sometimes I felt agender) for a few months before realizing I was a man.

And that was all over the place but I hope it helped. :p
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#4
x3 I figured you would hop in here, but I didn't want to make assumptions if you weren't comfortable! (Also your boyfriend sounds super nice and adorable ;;)

I found this subreddit for trans men, and I know it links to other resources and stuff. :> You were going over links to trans resources when we were creating Quicksilver, so I'm sure you know where to find sooome things, but just thought this might help. I see that it has binding resources in the sidebar. Since you did mention your breasts specifically I think it would really, really help. I do want to warn you to be careful about it, though; I have a friend who binds with ace bandages for cosplay and it's easy to really, really hurt your ribs if you aren't careful -- but she doesn't do it all the time so she doesn't use an actual binder. I think with an actual binder and some talk with those who use them would make it okay for you. If nothing else, yes -- I wear sports bras to look "flatter" for cosplay and it might be a little easier to use without questions (if you aren't comfortable with family situations, etc.) if it helps you. :) Packing might help, too, but I know zilch about it so I'd just dig around resources for that. <_<;;


Also I wanted to say I'm really proud of you. <3 Just in general. You are an amazing person and I wish you luck! I wish I could help more!
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#5
Actually, and I'd pass this onto your friend, Raze

Binding with ace for even short periods of time, even over other things, is a really not good idea. It's meant to compress far past a safe point, and can damage ribs and cause bad bruising, even if it doesn't hurt or constrict your breathing right away. It can also really break down breast tissue. ;-; There are lots of resources for homemade binders, though, and actual binders aren't super expensive anyway. c:
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#6
I already do the oversized clothes and have always liked male clothes versus female clothes. I'm not certain where to get a binder or if I'll even be allowed to use it (basically family would never accept the idea). Like I said the pronoun doesn't really bug me cause I'll answer to anything. Even mess ups on my name I answer to. What I'm called has never bothered my but my body always has.

I thought I was the only person who felt that way about the gay men thing and that it just made me weird. I thought it was stupid of me to want something I couldn't have and just made me hate myself even more.

Yeah, I've got no amount of self esteem at all. It is being in therapy that has brought all this up and made me question myself and actually try and figure out what I want and why I am the way I am and trying to fix all that is broken. So yeah, if not for therapy then this likely would have never come up.

I always thought it was pretty cut and dry, to be classified as one thing then you have to feel/be/act a certain way. I don't know. I'm just so confused.

It helps in a way that it gives me more to think about and that there really isn't this little box that I have to fit into. To know that everyone experiences things differently helps. Cause I felt trapped into thinking I was meant to feel a certain way and since I'm not all that in touch with my feelings I felt even more messed up and that this was just another thing I was screwing up.

And it isn't that I want them to be smaller/flatter but I just want them to be entirely non-existent. I would have loved to remain flat chested.

But yeah, I know we looked up all that stuff for Quicksilver but I don't know if I qualify as that or not. I just have no idea what I would be classified as.
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#7
I know exactly how you feel. I'm a female, but I don't want to be, but I don't exactly want to be a man either, so I think of myself as Agendered typically. I don't like having breasts, but I would never get surgery because the idea scares me so much, so I'm learning to just accept my body the way it is, because my body doesn't define me. I do have really short hair though :) And see, that's why I call myself Corie, because it's not tied to a certain gender and it's what appeals to me.
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#8
Will do, Norniff! I know she's had to adjust how she uses it (since the first time she WAS hurting herself, the dolt <3) but if it's not safe AT ALL then I'll let her know. :>

And yeah... I think a sports bra would be an alternative if they would question the binder. Your safety is most important. I think using just a sports bra (which isn't so "unusual" for a "girl" to have) would help a little, and if you feel like you could use a binder then you can try that? I don't know. Dysphoria has to feel horrible and I know that does not at all help your preexisting depression and stuff like that. :< Maybe transitioning or at least taking those first few steps will help you feel better -- but I don't know. Everyone is different. I am just hopeful for you. Even if little things help.

But yeah. The one thing I do know is that everyone has a different experience and feels things a different way regardless of the situation. You aren't strange or wrong at all. <3 It's just your way of thinking/feeling/acting. There is no "right" way to experience any of this!


I dunno. I feel a little awkward since really I'm unqualified to even talk about this.
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<a href="viewtopic.php?t=23974" target="_blank" title="POST LOG" class="post-log"></a>
<a href="#!" title="I prefer if you do NOT use graphical tables in our threads. Thanks!" class="no-tables"></a><br/>
<a href="//wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Characters.Vesper" target="_blank" title="CHARACTER WIKI" class="character-wiki"></a>
<a href="//imgur.com/a/X5Zf0" target="_blank" title="CHARACTER GALLERY &amp; CREDITS" class="ic-gallery"></a>
<a href="#!" class="lupus-preference" title="LUPUS unless otherwise stated."></a>
<a href="#!" class="accompaniment" title="Typically accompanied by a raven or two."></a>
<a href="LINK" class="permanent-disability" title="Crippled right hind leg."></a><br/>
<a href="#!" class="skill-fighting" title="Fighter mastered in feral combat."></a>
<a href="#!" class="skill-generic" title="Experienced survivalist able to scout, hunt, and navigate."></a>
<a href="#!" class="skill-animals" title="Able to talk to, care for, and train ravens."></a>
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[/html]
  Reply
#9
I don't mind the thought of surgery, I've already had to be stitched up before, but it is more a monetary issue for me as well as my family would be entirely unaccepting of such a thing.

I might see if I can find some online since I don't have cash. I know they won't accept a binder since they can't even accept gay people. I already wear my clothes oversized so I don't know if they will be able to notice or not. I've never done tight fitting clothes and always choose things a size or two bigger because I like the extra room and feel comfier in them then if I was wearing skin tight stuff. I've also hated girly things. My favorite hoodie came from the men's section cause I thought all the girl stuff was way too prissy for me.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I need to feel in control of my situation. I'm the type that needs things laid out in black and white so I can follow the exact steps needed to reach the end goal. I'm so used to things being either right or wrong that it is hard for me to accept that there is no right way or wrong way because there is no control in such a thing since I have no guide to follow.
[html]
<div class="cartier-raze-sig">

<span class="name if">Cartier Inferni</span>
<br/>
<span class="quote">fideli certa merces</span>
<br/>
<div class="buttonblock"><a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Packs.InferniAdoptable#adoptables" target="_blank"><img src="https://inferni.soulsrpg.com/public/images/featured_adoptable_sm.png"></a> <a href="https://inferni.soulsrpg.com/policies/joining" target="_blank"><img src="https://inferni.soulsrpg.com/public/images/pride/if.gif" /></a> <a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Packs.InferniAdoptable#adoptables"><img src="https://pile.randimg.net/0/87/21920/inferni-adoptables.png"></a>
<br/>
<div id="signature-icons">
<a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Players.SylveyAdoptions" class="adoptables-available" title="ADOPTABLES available!"></a> <a href="https://soulsrpg.com/forum/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&u=975" class="player-contact" title="CONTACT: PM Please"></a> <a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Players.Sylvey" target="_blank" title="PLAYER WIKI" class="player-wiki"></a> <a href="#!" class="reply-slow" title="REPLY SPEED: SLOW"></a> <a href="#!" title="I will NOT roleplay LASKY." class="no-lasky"></a> <a href="#!" title="I will roleplay mature material." class="will-mature"></a>
<br/>
<a href="#!" title="ALWAYS OPEN FOR THREADS!" class="open-for-threads"></a> <a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Characters.CartierInferni" target="_blank" title="CHARACTER WIKI" class="character-wiki"></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/a/jggdF" target="_blank" title="CHARACTER GALLERY &amp; CREDITS" class="ic-gallery"></a> <a href="#!" class="references-okay" title="OOC references okay."></a> <a href="#!" class="optime-preference" title="OPTIME unless otherwise stated."></a>
<br/>
<a href="#!" class="skill-hunting" title="Character is a skilled hunter."></a> <a href="#!" class="skill-animals" title="Character is skilled with horses."></a> <a href="#!" class="skill-spirituality" title="Character is a skilled spiritualist."></a> <a href="#!" class="skill-social" title="Character is skilled in social skills."></a>
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<link href='https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Cinzel+Decorative' rel='stylesheet' type='text/css'>[/html]
  Reply
#10
Well, when it comes down to it, it's your body, so once you're financially able to support yourself then your family cant tell you not to change.. You should be whatever you want to be, and I'm sure they'll love you either way.
[html]<div class="Nyxsig1">
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/4PQhq5B.png" style="height:300px; z-index:-1; margin:0px 200px -110px;" />
<div class="title">Nyx</div>

<div class="bottom">
<div class="sigicons" id="signature-icons">
<a href="http://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Players.Corie" target="_blank" title="PLAYER WIKI" class="player-wiki"></a>

<a href="#" class="reply-medium" title="REPLY SPEED: MEDIUM - Up to 2 weeks"></a>
<a href="#" title="I will roleplay mature material." class="will-mature"></a>
<a href="#" title="I will roleplay Preybot." class="will-preybot"></a>
<a href="#" title="I will roleplay LASKY." class="will-lasky"></a>
<br>
<a href="http://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Characters.Nyx" target="_blank" title="CHARACTER WIKI" class="character-wiki"></a>
<a href="LINK" title="OPEN FOR THREADS!" class="open-for-threads"></a>
<a href="#" target="_blank" title="Nyx speaks English and Low Speech" class="foreign-language"></a>
<a href="#" class="apparel-accessories" title="Nyx light armor and minimal clothing"></a>
<a href="#" class="character-typical-location" title="Anathema and surrounding areas"></a>
<a href="#" class="references-okay" title="OOC references okay. Specific conversations please PM me first."></a>
<a href="#" class="optime-preference" title="OPTIME unless otherwise stated."></a>
<a href="#" class="skill-trade" title="Nyx has pelts and bones for trade"></a>
<a href="#!" class="skill-generic" title="Master hand to hand combat, hunting, tracking"></a>

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[/html]
  Reply
#11
Actually I'm not certain that my family even loves me. I'm not particularly close to anyone but I'm the sort that doesn't like to upset anyone at all. I was abused growing up and made to feel hated and unloved, I was pretty much isolated from everyone so yeah, not certain if they will still like me and accept me or not. I already don't feel accepted or loved by my family yet I feel that I must do what will make them happy.
[html]
<div class="cartier-raze-sig">

<span class="name if">Cartier Inferni</span>
<br/>
<span class="quote">fideli certa merces</span>
<br/>
<div class="buttonblock"><a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Packs.InferniAdoptable#adoptables" target="_blank"><img src="https://inferni.soulsrpg.com/public/images/featured_adoptable_sm.png"></a> <a href="https://inferni.soulsrpg.com/policies/joining" target="_blank"><img src="https://inferni.soulsrpg.com/public/images/pride/if.gif" /></a> <a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Packs.InferniAdoptable#adoptables"><img src="https://pile.randimg.net/0/87/21920/inferni-adoptables.png"></a>
<br/>
<div id="signature-icons">
<a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Players.SylveyAdoptions" class="adoptables-available" title="ADOPTABLES available!"></a> <a href="https://soulsrpg.com/forum/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&u=975" class="player-contact" title="CONTACT: PM Please"></a> <a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Players.Sylvey" target="_blank" title="PLAYER WIKI" class="player-wiki"></a> <a href="#!" class="reply-slow" title="REPLY SPEED: SLOW"></a> <a href="#!" title="I will NOT roleplay LASKY." class="no-lasky"></a> <a href="#!" title="I will roleplay mature material." class="will-mature"></a>
<br/>
<a href="#!" title="ALWAYS OPEN FOR THREADS!" class="open-for-threads"></a> <a href="https://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Characters.CartierInferni" target="_blank" title="CHARACTER WIKI" class="character-wiki"></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/a/jggdF" target="_blank" title="CHARACTER GALLERY &amp; CREDITS" class="ic-gallery"></a> <a href="#!" class="references-okay" title="OOC references okay."></a> <a href="#!" class="optime-preference" title="OPTIME unless otherwise stated."></a>
<br/>
<a href="#!" class="skill-hunting" title="Character is a skilled hunter."></a> <a href="#!" class="skill-animals" title="Character is skilled with horses."></a> <a href="#!" class="skill-spirituality" title="Character is a skilled spiritualist."></a> <a href="#!" class="skill-social" title="Character is skilled in social skills."></a>
</div>
</div></div>

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<link href='https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Cinzel+Decorative' rel='stylesheet' type='text/css'>[/html]
  Reply
#12
I'm from a conservative family. And I am a straight female with some bisexual tendencies I've always just kind of passed off as a desire kind of thing because I find women attractive only physically and not emotionally. But I just want to say that from someone who knows how closed minded families and parents can be. I just want to offer my support to you.

I've struggled with self esteem myself and currently I find my mission is to find who I am and to do it regardless what my parents will think. Because, as much as I love my family, I've realized the most important trick in being happy is investing in your own happiness. I can't be happy restrained by my parents and they are going to have to realize that because they love me they need to support my happiness and what makes me feel most like me.

I'm here for you! I promise you it will be okay. Because as we get older and we develop and we focus on ourselves and being happy with ourselves we become content with being something very simple. Being ourselves. Nothing else matters. Just work on finding yourself and your happiness without caring about others and I promise it will be okay.

Keep your head up! I'm here anytime you need it.
[size=150]Inhale the good. Exhale the bad.[/size]
[size=85]Assume Jinora is in optime form unless stated.[/size]
  Reply
#13
Quote:I always thought it was pretty cut and dry, to be classified as one thing then you have to feel/be/act a certain way. I don't know. I'm just so confused.

It helps in a way that it gives me more to think about and that there really isn't this little box that I have to fit into. To know that everyone experiences things differently helps. Cause I felt trapped into thinking I was meant to feel a certain way and since I'm not all that in touch with my feelings I felt even more messed up and that this was just another thing I was screwing up.

Even though stuff can be very confusing, I think this a good space to be in generally. Life is multi-faceted and as you get older, you realize that there is no real clear cut answer, or really, any answer at all. You really get to make choices for yourself - what do you care about? What matters to you? How much do these things matter to you? What are your expectations vs. the expectations of people in your life? Those are important realizations to have, and even if it's uncomfortable, I think it's ultimately a very good place for personal growth.

I think it's a good thing to try and take solace in both the individual experience of self actualization and that this happens for everyone. We all have to figure it out for ourselves. And you'll be figuring it out at every different moment of your life - because circumstances and who you are is always changing. That's awesome!

Quote:I've never done tight fitting clothes and always choose things a size or two bigger because I like the extra room and feel comfier in them then if I was wearing skin tight stuff. I've also hated girly things. My favorite hoodie came from the men's section cause I thought all the girl stuff was way too prissy for me.

You know, you might consider this differently - why is "girly" negative? Why do you associate "prissy" with women's clothing?

I don't mean to introduce this kind of discussion into an identity thread but I do think its worth examining, because I feel like it's relevant to gender and what our society expects/stereotypes of women. I personally think American culture is very misogynistic. You might consider, especially if you feel uncomfortable in your own gender, how this relates to that.

There's a lot of feminist literature that may help you with your perceptions of yourself or at least shed light on why it is you feel uncomfortable by traditional feminine expectations. I think a lot of women suffer in this society. I can understand why women come to hate themselves or feel uncomfortable in their own skin. Barring the conversation of dysphoria, I personally think it's because society says we need to fit into this narrow box of "womanhood" which was designed by men, for men. I think harmful stereotypes are lived and internalized by women. You grow up with books, movies, schools reinforcing this idea that woman = emotional, frailty, insecurity, conniving; Man = humankind, personhood, strength, rationality. We're drawn as the negative yet necessary counterpart to man. Even if you don't agree or have a different perspective, I think feminist theory is worth exploring so that you can arrive to your own conclusions. I do think it will impact the way you feel.

But it's definitely worthwhile to remember that there is actually no unified feminist point of view - even among feminists, there is a wide range of opinion, and it definitely intersects with other social issues - trans, gay, etc etc. You have to figure out what you feel about it, but I think that the more information you have, the better position you are to make decisions about yourself.

Anyway, I hope that this wasn't confusing or if it was, it was the good kind of confusing. I think it's ok if life is ambiguous and that people have very different experiences of themselves and each other. You're not alone to suffer, and I think it's always good to remember that. You're on the right track to discuss and field ideas to your peers, and you're open and exploring ideas that I think will benefit you in the long run. I always think it's good to ask questions and constantly search for answers - even if that only leads to more questions. You will be a more thoughtful, considerate person for it. :)
  Reply
#14
I don't have any helpful advice for you, I wish I did. What I do have are big hugs and an open ear.

I'm bisexual and pagan in an ultra-religious family. I'm open about the fact that I was repeatedly molested from 13-20 by my mom's current husband, and that had isolated me from a lot of my family. I don't much mind, either. As I grew up and moved out on my own, I learned that my family doesn't define who I am, they don't get that right. Only I get to define who I am.

I'm always on AIM (wolftears137) or you can look me up on facebook, Syvannah Tewes from Casper WY and message me there.
Be who you are, not who people expect you to be. <3
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<div style="width: 500px; font-family: 'Open Sans Condensed'; font-size: 15px; text-transform: uppercase; line-height: 100%; color: #222; text-align: center; letter-spacing: 2px">Things no one would ever guess and mere words cannot express?</div>
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<a href="http://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Characters.AiyannaAmara" target="_blank" title="Adopt Aiyanna!">
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3jMzF2j.png">
</a>
<a href="http://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Characters.TivaAjila" target="_blank" title="Adopt Tiva!">
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/t7zT4OO.png">
</a>

</div>
<div class="links" id="signature-icons">
<a class="optime-preference" title="OPTIME preferred!"></a>
<a class="apparel-accessories" title="Character typically wears just jeans. Anything else will be specified in the thread."></a>
<a class="foreign-language" title="May use Aniwayan in casual conversation. Is not completely fluent."></a>
<a class="skill-medic" title="Character is a skilled medic and herbalist."></a>
<a class="character-typical-location" title="Character is typically found in or around the herbal hut. Brief references okay, for detailed conversation please PM me first."></a>
<a href="http://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Characters.TaliesinDirRhiannon" target="_blank" title="Character Wiki" class="character-wiki"></a>
<a class="reply-fast" title="REPLY SPEED: FAST. Between one and four days."></a>
<a class="will-mature" title="I will roleplay smut!"></a>
<a href="http://wiki.soulsrpg.com/index.php?n=Players.Vannah" target="_blank" title="Player Wiki" class="player-wiki"></a>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>

[/html]
  Reply
#15
San -- I don't think that this is a feminism issue, really (focusing on the female aspect of it, at least, since I know feminism is more far-reaching). I don't want to call you out on anything, because your points were very true and a lot of them helpful, but I think it might make it a little more confusing for Sylvey. After all, if they were a "boy" and wanted to wear "girl's" clothing and have breasts, etc., I don't know if you would be arguing the perception of male clothing, etc.? I just don't want it to be a matter of "oh, you're just a self-hating woman" when the dysphoria is really obvious and it isn't an issue of liking "masculine/feminine" stuff, etc. ^^; And I totally don't think you're saying that, but that's how it could come across and was my knee-jerk reaction! I think a lot of what you said is true, just don't want to imply Sylvey is wrong for feeling how they feel or anything.
[html]<div class="vessig">

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<a href="#!" class="lupus-preference" title="LUPUS unless otherwise stated."></a>
<a href="#!" class="accompaniment" title="Typically accompanied by a raven or two."></a>
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#16
I'm glad some others understand how limiting family can be. I'm a people pleaser at heart and I don't want to upset anyone. Because of this I don't do stuff my family wouldn't end up accepting. I can't talk about this stuff with them because it'll just get shot down. I've got nowhere else to go so I can't afford to upset family and get myself outcasted. I think that is part of the reason I struggle so much. I don't have the freedom to explore if I want to keep a roof over my head.

I struggle to make choices. I tend to let others make decisions for me. I always feel that everyone else knows best and my thoughts and ideas are just stupid (because the abuse I suffered by my mother said so) and so I don't trust myself to be able to make a decision. I can't accept mistakes and failures on my part. I can forgive them in others but not in myself. I completely tear myself down over a mistake and feel like I don't deserve to live because all I ever do is fuck things up. I feel the same way over rejection too. It was a big step for me to open up and put myself out there like this. I always fear the worst will happen.

By prissy I meant the stuff with all the frills and lace and cutesy images on them. I don't simple things but I'm not into all the bells and whistles that the clothes around here all seem to have. Men's stuff is simpler and not so embellished so it appeals to me more. And in my experience the girls around here that would wear the fancier stuff weren't exactly nice. They always put me down. I didn't have a safe outlet in school either as I was always mocked there too. So in my personal experience it was the people that wore such things that gave it a negative connotation because of how they acted towards me.

Raze, I didn't mind the feminism talk. I'm not sure if it related to me or not. My discomfort of things stems from personal experiences rather than societal stereotypes. I've only been shown the worst side of humanity for most of my life. My mom wore tight clothing and she abused me for 16 straight years, so I associate tight clothing with abuse. The same thing with the fancier clothing. Kids at school were cruel because I was different and didn't have all the name brand stuff. My family has always been on poorer side and it showed so I always got piled on for it. I had nowhere to turn without someone being cruel to me. So the stuff I don't like tend to stem from associations with the abuse I suffered.
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#17
To add my two cents to what you've said San, and what you've said Raze, I'd say that this isn't as much of a feminist issue. But it's very important to consider the gendering of clothing; I enjoy crossdressing on occasion, and the general perception of transmen is that they're lying or "just confused" if they enjoy feminine things or feminine clothing.

I personally feel identifying what feminism means to you would be important, Sylvey. It can help a lot with understanding patriarchal limits on yourself; everyone suffers from that to varying degrees.

I'd still identify what you're experiencing as dysphoria, but that doesn't mean you have to fit in one box or another. I promise, dear.

This is all your choice, and the best part is it's not set in stone. Not at all. You get to many many flexible choices.
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#18
Yeah -- I agree with what Norniff said. I just had a knee-jerk reaction because being overprotective is one of my major flaws. >_>;; Personally I don't buy into the whole "masculine/feminine" interests. I play video games, hate casual girl's clothing/tight-fitting clothing, but love earrings and special-occasion dresses I can twirl in. My brother likes pottery and crossdressing as well as working out and pretty girls.

Basically I wanted to apologize to San! ^^; <3 And I'll stay out of this so it can get back to Sylvey.
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#19
Quote:San -- I don't think that this is a feminism issue, really (focusing on the female aspect of it, at least, since I know feminism is more far-reaching). I don't want to call you out on anything, because your points were very true and a lot of them helpful, but I think it might make it a little more confusing for Sylvey. After all, if they were a "boy" and wanted to wear "girl's" clothing and have breasts, etc., I don't know if you would be arguing the perception of male clothing, etc.? I just don't want it to be a matter of "oh, you're just a self-hating woman" when the dysphoria is really obvious and it isn't an issue of liking "masculine/feminine" stuff, etc. ^^; And I totally don't think you're saying that, but that's how it could come across and was my knee-jerk reaction! I think a lot of what you said is true, just don't want to imply Sylvey is wrong for feeling how they feel or anything.

Yeah -- I agree with what Norniff said. I just had a knee-jerk reaction because being overprotective is one of my major flaws. >_>;; Personally I don't buy into the whole "masculine/feminine" interests. I play video games, hate casual girl's clothing/tight-fitting clothing, but love earrings and special-occasion dresses I can twirl in. My brother likes pottery and crossdressing as well as working out and pretty girls.

Basically I wanted to apologize to San! ^^; <3 And I'll stay out of this so it can get back to Sylvey.

You don't have to apologize!! I don't feel wronged haha. I think it's good to say what you think!? xD

I definitely didn't intend to throw this off topic or suggest that Sylvey is wrong for feeling anything! She obviously feels something uncomfortable related to her gender and that's very real. There are a lot of people who benefit from changing genders, and ultimately I think you have to do what you think will improve your quality of life. No matter what culture or volumes of literature say - if you feel that your biological/cultural/political sex is uncomfortable and feel better as the other, then there's really no question about it.

I do feel that gender dysphoria intersects with issues of gender and feminism. Even just glancing at the wikipedia article on it, here it says "Many transgender people and researchers support declassification of GID [gender identity disorder] because they say the diagnosis pathologizes gender variance, reinforces the binary model of gender,[8] and can result in stigmatization of transgender individuals."

I think it's helpful to deconstruct things. I feel like it can only help to ask "What is a man? What is a woman? What does it mean to be a woman in this culture; what does it mean to be a man in this culture?" Especially if you're feeling confused about yourself.

I didn't mean to sound like I'm dismissing this as a case of "oh you're a self hating woman" :( I only meant to say that I think in many women raised as women in this culture, there are issues of self hate related to how our culture values and portrays women. Could that be the case for Sylvey, in some way? I didn't want to answer that question, only pose it to her for her to answer for herself. I do think I would have raised the male-clothing associations because I think that's embedded in the same issue.

I generally feel like gender isn't as simple as "man" or "woman", but I do realize that's not going to be the same for other people. I wanted to encourage her to dig around because I felt like it could help Sylvey understand herself better.


Sylvey - I'm sorry that you had to go through that :( I understand now that your specific connotations of clothing relate more to emotional abuse.

I stand by that exploring gender issues might help you find a space to be comfortable in yourself. You definitely don't have to wear women's clothing if you don't want to - I personally have some gripes about women's clothing. I would really really like for more/real pockets in women's pants LOL. I guess I wanted to ask, if a woman wears male clothing, does that make her less of a woman? If a man wears female clothing, does that make him less of a man? Or feminine? Why is men's clothing the way it is, and why is women's clothing the way it is? I guess I feel like those are valuable questions. But maybe you don't feel the same, which is fine!

Anyway I'm gonna just duck out now because I think maybe I'm missing the point or being a nuisance/making people uncomfortable or unhappy which I don't want to do!! :(
  Reply
#20
Not to hijack this thread in any way, but I wanted to say that I'm really amazed at how open sexuality and gender identities have become recently. Because of it, I recently realized in the last year that I have bisexual tendencies (never to be used ever since I'm married now, haha). It makes me kind of mourn for a dating life that never was but could have been.
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#21
You aren't bothering me San. I didn't think you were saying I was hating on women or anything, it is just me that I am hating on and I just happen to be a woman. Hating my body is only a smidgen of it. I was raised to hate everything about myself and that developed into body issues as I can't find a single thing that I like about myself. My therapist tells me to think of something positive about myself and tell me it every day but I can't come up with a single thing on my own. I can only go by what others tell me but I still can't really believe what they say, not that I think that they are lying but it just more feels like they are speaking about someone else entirely. Like they are speaking about this whole other person that I don't know. I can't see in myself what others see in me.

But I'm actually very open minded about others. I've always been do whatever makes you happy. I know a guy that can make a dress look way better than I could. Of course I could never express this openly because the area where I live isn't accepting of these things. You can't speak of such things here.

But yeah, I'm glad the world is becoming more accepting of these things even if my little part of it refuses to accept it. You can't be different around here. They call women with short hair dykes and act like it is a contagious disease. They still use the 'N' word around here. So yeah, really not tolerant at all. Racial slurs are abundant.
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#22
Since binders have been suggested I went to looking them up. I'm finding they aren't one size fits all like I thought they would be. Can someone with any experience with this help me figure out what size I need? Some show measurements for sizes:

Code:
Size:
S:Bust(cm)80-87;Under Bust(cm) 68-75;Weight(kg)40-46;Height(cm)Approx 165cm
M:Bust(cm)87-94;Under Bust(cm)75-82;Weight(kg)47-54;Height(cm)Approx 165cm
L:Bust(cm)94-99;Under Bust(cm) 82-88;Weight(kg) 55-61;Height(cm)Approx 165cm
XL:Bust(cm)Approx 165cm;Under Bust(cm)88-93;Weight(kg)62-69;Height(cm)Approx 165cm
XXL:Bust(cm)106-113;Under Bust(cm)93-99;Weight(kg)70-76;Height(cm)Approx 165cm

Can someone help me understand these and how to take the measurements. Are those before sizes or the size it will be after the binder is on? I found some in a tank style that I might be able to get away with. I'll even take suggestions on what type of binder would be best to get. Should I go strapless or would tank be okay? There are full tanks and half tanks. Just any suggestions on what would work best would be nice. I was think tank because I'm worried strapless will continue to slip down I would have to adjust it over and over again which would be awkward.

I'm also looking into sports bras and I would appreciate help on sizing them too. Are they supposed to fit snug or be looser?

I'm sorry if these questions are dumb but they are things that I can't ask my own family.
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#23
I'm kind of late to this discussion but I wanted to add in my story in case it might be of some use.

I have also always suffered from gender issues. Since the time I was young I disliked being treated as a girl. I hated it when I got put into girls groups or made to wear feminine clothing. Dresses and I have a long time distaste for one another and I won't even look at makeup or jewelery. Ever since I entered college and gained the freedom to buy my own clothes, I spend most of my time in the men's sections of stores. Whenever I got called a boy I was happy. However, my story differs from yours in that I am not trans. At least... not fully.

I don't experience the same discomfort with my female body. I have never wished for a penis and there are times when I even like my breasts and vagina. I have extraordinarily long hair that I love to brush and braid. Additionally, I have never wanted to be a boy, at least not fully. I do envy guys occasionally for their male anatomy, but it isn't always the case. After years of deliberation and thinking, I finally came up with an answer that satisfied my inner feelings. I am what is known as Gender Queer.

Gender Queer is officially on the trans spectrum. We are considered partway between male and female. There are also various kinds of Gender Queer including Gender Fluid and Agender. I've just started the process of telling my family and friends of my gender orientation and I understand the lack of community support. In the end, all I can say is do your research and do what makes you feel best. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors and don't give up.
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#24
Cartier Inferni Wrote:Since binders have been suggested I went to looking them up. I'm finding they aren't one size fits all like I thought they would be. Can someone with any experience with this help me figure out what size I need? Some show measurements for sizes:

Code:
Size:
S:Bust(cm)80-87;Under Bust(cm) 68-75;Weight(kg)40-46;Height(cm)Approx 165cm
M:Bust(cm)87-94;Under Bust(cm)75-82;Weight(kg)47-54;Height(cm)Approx 165cm
L:Bust(cm)94-99;Under Bust(cm) 82-88;Weight(kg) 55-61;Height(cm)Approx 165cm
XL:Bust(cm)Approx 165cm;Under Bust(cm)88-93;Weight(kg)62-69;Height(cm)Approx 165cm
XXL:Bust(cm)106-113;Under Bust(cm)93-99;Weight(kg)70-76;Height(cm)Approx 165cm

Can someone help me understand these and how to take the measurements. Are those before sizes or the size it will be after the binder is on? I found some in a tank style that I might be able to get away with. I'll even take suggestions on what type of binder would be best to get. Should I go strapless or would tank be okay? There are full tanks and half tanks. Just any suggestions on what would work best would be nice. I was think tank because I'm worried strapless will continue to slip down I would have to adjust it over and over again which would be awkward.

I'm also looking into sports bras and I would appreciate help on sizing them too. Are they supposed to fit snug or be looser?

I'm sorry if these questions are dumb but they are things that I can't ask my own family.

These sizes are for before measurements, they're to help you determine what you should be wearing to accommodate your body size safely and comfortably. And these measurements are fairly standard; I found a picture guide here on where you can use a tape measure to get accurate readings.
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#25
Ariel, I'm looking into it but still uncertain of just where I fall. It is an ongoing process for me to try and figure myself out. Maybe if I can ever get away from where I am then I can explore it more.

Thanks Gen, I really suck at measurements. I have another dumb question, is measuring done with a bra on or a bra off?
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#26
Hey, I haven't read all of the posts in this thread so please forgive if I repeat anything that's already been said <w<;. But I am a non-binary person and would just like to give a few tips!

First off, and this is an obvious one that others have mentioned, it is perfectly OK to experiment. But for me personally, I did not experiment with clothing. One of the things I did when I was questioning, was ask some of my closest friends to try out using the pronouns I was thinking I wanted to use. Also, if you don't like your birth name, you can also ask your friends to try out a new name for you -- it can be any name that you want, anything that makes you feel comfortable. If you were born with the name Tom, you don't have to be a Tomella xD. You can be an Adele, a Luna, a Maria (I personally got the name used by my friends from a TV show XD).

Also, as Ariel implied in their post, you do NOT have to experience dysphoria to be trans! This is a mistake I see a lot around the trans community. If you don't want to change your private parts, that's OK! You can still be whatever gender you want. Your gender is a part of your identity. It's just like any other part of your identity, like your taste in music. Some people are going to love being rock fans, some people are going to love being country fans. Gender is the exact same thing. And it has just as many choices! In your post, it does seem like you do experience dysphoria, which is of course perfectly acceptable as well. But if at any time your feelings of dysphoria fade for whatever reason, I want you to know your feelings are still valid, it certainly doesn't mean you have to find a new gender.

As a final note, pronouns and titles are not limited. I am a non-binary person who uses he/him/his pronouns. If you like certain pronouns but don't feel you want to be the gender typically tied to it, you can do that. :3 But anyways, I should probably stop rambling here before I just start repeating myself :P. I hoped this helped at least a little bit!
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#27
What I am called doesn't bug me. Everyone already messes up my name so I'm used to answering to anything. Just like pronouns don't bug me either cause I'm used to answering to either or. I have just always wanted to change body parts I have never been satisfied with what I have. They feel all wrong to me and I hate them. I don't know if this matters any or not, but in my dreams I am always male. I've never had a dream where I was female in it. Granted, I was always a gay male in my dreams too. I can't remember a single moment where I've ever wanted girl parts, just like I can't ever recall a dream where I was a girl.

I guess that is what has me feeling so fucked up and confused. It is the physical aspect that disgusts me and yet the verbal stuff doesn't matter at all.
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#28
Don't worry too much about finding a label if you are confused -- you can just be you until you eventually find one. To be honest, I can't help much with dysphoria since I don't currently experience it D:. All I can say is there is no rush for all this. I understand how weird-feeling this might be, but you have a lot of years to figure it out. That aside, I definitely recommend looking into a binder like you have been doing. Just make sure you get one that's good quality! Also, whenever you manage to get one, try not to wear it all the time. And do not sleep in it! Even the best binders are not made to be worn 24/7 and can cause problems if you do. Safety first!
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