Character "Endgame" Discussion
#1
I was talking about this with a friend the other day, and I know this was brought up in Questions & Help for one character on the old board -- but it's been a while, so I thought it'd be nice to have a discussion here!

I have seen many characters -- awesome, sometimes "favorite" characters -- dropped after the player felt lost for what to do "next" with them. Their lives were neatly wrapped up; they were mated to the love of their life, they had children, they were at a high rank in their pack. They really had everything they could ask for, and so many players felt their muse fail because there wasn't really anything else to do.

I haven't been here that long, but it does sound like a reasonably common problem that plagues players -- and I wanted to ask if people could share their experiences with this or if they have ways to avoid the problem, since I'm sure that might get useful for those who've lost muse for characters who've reached their "endgame." I'll chime in with my own thoughts later. <3
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#2
Hmm, very tricky. In a one-on-one roleplay, all you'd have to do is create an alternate universe...but on 'Souls...hmm, you could RP in Lasky, but~. Well, this probably isn't a totally good answer, but I do have some ideas. Maybe your character, after a while, gets bored of such an easy life. Maybe they can decide to turn over a new leaf and leave their pack (with/without their mate and pups). If you can see your character doing that kind of thing, you should go for it! Or, you could always plot with your character's children.

Even if they are older now and not adorable pups, you'd be surprised how much parent-child drama can be roleplayed! However...there is a time when you just need to let characters go, unfortunately. If you feel that it's really about time they die off, well, nothing can really be done! A nice thing to look into is to play another character that was related or heavily influenced by your character, that way you can still sort of have the joy of playing your old character, but also have a whole new world of plots and character development!
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#3
Hmm, I've sort of struggled with Tayui a few times in the past. I started roleplaying her in 2004, when she was a year old. She's turning 10 this year, so I've sort of stuck around with her for a while and played out multiple plotlines. I recall when the fire occurred, I was pretty close to dropping her, since for a long time, she was pretty inseparable from Jaded Shadows. The idea that she could exist without the pack was unthinkable at first. But nonetheless, I tried to push forward a new plot to explore new areas of her personality. I think that's why I've stuck around with her for 9 years: when I ran out of ideas, I'd pursue a new plot. So, when she left AniWaya, I felt sort of lost again. I tried Anathema and it didn't fit. So I thought I'd try and do something totally different, which meant the Sequoia plot and joining Salsola as a temporary plot. I planned it out with Sie, who approved it all (since you're not supposed to ever leave Salsola) and sort of took her to her highest extreme.

She's mellowed out, but I liked the warrior aspect, so I decided to make her a Guardian of Vinatta. c: She wants to protect what she has and when she's too old to fight anymore, perhaps when she's 11, she'll become a Scholar. I plan on playing her 'till she dies of old age, so I plan on sticking around 'Souls. We'll see if it works out! O_O

I still think I have a lot of mileage left in her because she's only just had a litter of puppies, which means lots of room for plotting with her kids! And of course, there's her previous litter, so if anyone picks up her other kids, I would be super happy because that means even more! But I don't think having puppies is necessary to keep your character interesting at all. It's a way to do it, yes, but if you rush into it or don't plan ahead, you might end up with puppies and no roleplayers (which is super sad!!) or you might get bored, who knows. It's the same for any plot.

Hybrid, for example, wasn't supposed to have kids, ever. But he eventually started feeling his age and saw them as a succession line, whereas Tayui just loves family. Hybrid I killed off because I felt his plot had come to a close and I was happy with what I'd done. Even Hybrid I played for a long time, but unlike Tayui, I was content to move on. I wanted to explore new plots with new characters, whereas with Tayui, I wanted to continue roleplaying with her. It really depends on the character, I think.
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#4
One thing I've noticed a good bit in terms of 'having it all' ic'ly, a lot of people will thread a ton with their mate...at least until they <i>become</i> mates. Than the threads and plots drop off in that regard. I think that can definitely be a good bit of an inspiration killer, Sometimes when your character has so many connections it can get a little stifling? If I want billy to go on a big adventure to other packs it may be perceived as abandonment to the attached characters/etc.
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#5
I had this problem with Insomnia on the old board. She had so many plots, so many things going for her, but I just had the wrong people in the plots. So I had her move to another roleplay site, which the same thing happened. I really had no muse left for her, since her whole life was basically drama, which was a fail on my fault.
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#6
Hmm, this is a really interesting topic. :) Since 'Souls plays out in real time, it often ends with the character dying, or just being perma-NPCed if not dropped. My first 'Souls character, Slay, fell into this rut. I had played him elsewhere on the internet for years prior, and he lived on 'Souls for two years I think, gradually overcoming all of his quirks and fears. He gained a high council rank, became the alpha's mate, adopted children and eventually was expecting a litter with his mate, when muse finally fizzled to nothing. We just decided to have the couple run off into the sunset and have their puppies offboard, because it was the only way to have a happily ever after.

No character can last forever, but I think a good way to keep interest is to lead your character in the opposite direction, have everything gradually fall apart again. This could happen unexpectedly, if their mate/children/whatever get dropped first, and they have to deal with the abandonment. But having a plot like a drug addiction, an affair, a demotion in rank, something negative they need to fix -- this could give them drive again, a reason to strive for something new.

Joining a new pack could be a great breath of fresh air, although this should be plotted in advance if your character has already achieved high rank in their old pack.

I've yet to get tired of Colibri here, because all of her ridiculous negativity keeps bringing up new plot angles and problems for her to fail at repairing. x) Sometimes being mean to your character is much better for your muse in the long term, since being nice and giving them everything they ever wanted could make you stuck for ideas.
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#7
I second the falling apart method for keeping a character alive. I have a tendency to create happy characters just to pull the rug out from under them :B But that's how life usually seems to work anyway, right? It's always a great chance for development, and makes them more three dimensional, in my opinion.
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#8
I've never gotten that far with a character. Usually something happens for force the plotline into an unintentional direction(usually on my part or my partners part, it's happened a lot equally between the two), so .. I've never come into ruts like this. My characters never get ANYWHERE. So I've never experienced "having it all". It's hard enough just keeping a mate, which has yet to happen, so once that happens and I can get to higher places then I might experience.. until then... xD but even so, I'm all for trying new things. Doing new things. I want dramallamas to keep things fresh and new, but not so much when it fucking ruins my characters life. Which is all that happens so far. e_e All I can suggest is what Tammi did with Tayui and try to pursue new plotlines with yer characters if you get stuck in these ruts. It can save yer character and it's really fun and interesting. It might seem impossible but it's really not. xD People just like to say so and so would NEEVVERRR leave but guess what, stuff happens! So even if you'd never see them leaving on their own accord, you could have something happen where they're forced to leave or something. I HATE seeing great characters dropped because "they'd never leave their pack/family". That's such a lame excuse to let go of someone amazing. It might be true but don't whine about it later because you have the power to make something happen to force them away and back into yer own hands. Just don't give up until you really, really have to I guess.
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#9
I love reading all these! :D

I've yet to encounter this issue, but I do agree with one point: conflict conflict conflict! Sometimes we dislike extra angst, but I agree that jerking your character forcibly in a new direction, even with minor conflicts, can really help out. It also really helps if you have a volatile character who would naturally create conflicts, or who keeps "fighting" to do interesting things and just be a badass.

For example, Vesper has zipped into a high rank and fell in love relatively quickly, and I worried that she would get locked into the "endgame" feeling where her only duties were as a mate and leader. However, I don't at all worry about that now. :D The plot with Myri, Ves, and the conception of their puppies added a new zing to the character -- though I'm lucky in that my character's mate is played by a person as awesome as Sie. However, even if Myrika wasn't around -- I know that Vesper would cause trouble for years to come, because her personality leaves room for it. She is arrogant and defensive about certain things, like speciesism or prejudice against non-Luperci.

The same with Skoll, though he's knew; at first, I thought he'd be the type of bland, "good" character to sit in his rank and have a mate and one litter of pups before I got bored of him. However, he quickly proved that he is overdominant and jealous and rash, and though he'll probably eventually cool down, I don't see him giving up the "fight" anytime soon!

I did have the opposite problem with Levent, however, which shows this doesn't always work. @__@ In his case, too much conflict kind of killed his character; he became nothing more than a ball of angst, unfortunately. D: Even leaving Cercatori d'Arte and his significant other did make things worse, because rather than being "free" he was still chained to CdA and wouldn't stop thinking about it. I've shoved him off-board and am giving him some more happy treats on the other side of the world so that, if I do bring him back, he'll be far more stable and have new motivations that aren't ruined by all the drama.

I also do agree that if you have been playing a character for years, it can be good to just kill them off -- more if you feel good and like they're old enough and have everything wrapped up nicely. That's more of an accomplished feeling than the difficult fight with muse I mentioned. ^^
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#10
I've played Nier for a year now and my main plan was to get him settled in a pack, with a mate and have puppies... And that happened. It was great but I did feel that maybe I had rushed into it despite Niernan and Grace's personalities meshing so well, because all of a sudden I had all of these amazing ideas which never got played out because the relationship was a 'hard and fast' thing. Nier was starting to stagnate a little bit for me and that made me sad as he's the character that I have a real emotional connection to. But then Kitty left 'Souls and left Grace in my care as NPC to do whatever I wished with, short of killing her. So I chose to go through with having the pups and then to have Grace leave, so not only does that impact Niernan, it impacts the pups and the pack. So there I have changed Niernan, Teagan and Lochlan's futures with one decision.

But Nier is the one that I want to play on this board forever. I love him too much to kill him off and I can always find interesting things to do with him as long as I don't settle back into the old 'patrol, hunt, meet and greet' routine. If I can keep him doing things then I can keep him interesting.

I put a lot of thought into the creation of Baird, but I didn't really plan out what I was going to do with him. He was supposed to be an eternal wanderer, but he's settled in Halifax now with Harvey and Aoves. I love him dearly and I don't want harm to come to him, but I feel a little like I've gone against his original design by having him settle down. He does become boring to play every now and then as his life is endless meet and greets, so I have thought about spicing his life up by bringing a family member over, or launching him into romance threads *coughSebastiancough*. I'm still toying with the idea of putting Cole and Anya (His siblings) up for adoption, but then I'm not sure.... With Baird I always know that if I cannot play him anymore I can put him on a ship and send him off travelling again, as that's what he's wired to do, and then if I want him back I can bring him back.

I've thought about dropping him a couple of times in the last few months, but I can't right now. He's too lovely to drop and just starting to actually make friends. *group hug for Harv, Aoves and Sebastian*
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#11
While none of my characters have reached an "endgame" per say, I have hit a point where I just couldn't get the muse for my character. I just couldn't summon enough muse to play Hotaru, but she was neither happy nor settled. I just felt like I couldn't get into her head. As for my happy and settled characters, I tend to be really cruel to them and it does keep my muse up. So... I guess my advice would be beat the living daylight out of character for muse?
Kohaku is dead. I am accepting no more threads for him, but I will finish current ones.
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#12
Ayita Catori ht her end game for me. I have been playing her as a character since 2000 not here on souls but in general. She has finally kinda hit her end and had to die for good. She kinda hit the cap of her life a bunch of kids all going their separate ways and one losing her mind.

Amaranth has yet to hit her End game, She's away for now and prlly a long time. She will come back though someday.

Imhotep may hit an Endgame in the next few years if not sooner. He was meant to be something else then what he isand this is very hard for me to play I'm hoping the few months off will allow me to get my head around who he is becoming. because he is to handsome to endgame.
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#13
Conflict and tragedy keep characters going for a long time, yes, but character motivation and direction is equally important. A character has to want stuff or want to do stuff.

I've personally always found well-adjusted and optimistic characters pretty boring to play, which is why I'd struggled with Arkham for almost all of his life...despite all kinds of awful crap happening to him. XD But after Laruku, I can also definitely say that a character that literally wants nothing out of life is equally hard to play. Laruku I pretty much had to kill off in the end because he got to the point where he seriously would have just let himself starve to death for apathy. <_<

And direction is the problem I have with Cassandra now too. I dunno what SHE wants to do with her life, so I have a hard time figuring out what I want to do with her.

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#14
I hit an end point with Hanna. I couldn't really play her much, and especially not on-board, and so I sent her to live with Leon Austral with their pups. Her kids may eventually make a return, I don't know.
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#15
I've only ever had two other characters on Souls besides Jazper: Giuseppe Trovato who was in AT and Jiya more recently who was a pup in AW.

With Giuseppe I played him for only about a year and he was very VERY selfish. He didn't want anything in life past pure power and independence, which drove him fairly well but in the long run I didn't have the muse to keep up with two characters.

As far as Jiya goes I admittedly made her very difficult for me to play. She was suppose to be very observant and critical in an intelligent manner, and I just couldn't come up with material smart enough XD Furthermore I still didn't have muse for two characters at that time either :|


For Jazzypants I have a long term plan for the next few years for him to develop some early set arthritis due to his size. From here he'll degrade fairly rapidly over a two or three year period and probably die in battle. :/ So ya. *huggles Jazzy* We'll see if I can let him go.


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#16
Io's getting close to hitting her endgame. But asdffghjjkl I love to too much to drop her. Though there's not much conflict available for her because she's got a responsibility to AniWaya so idek XD
  Reply
#17
Oh I know this all too well. "Realism" tends to be my motivator for endgames.

With Salvaged it was a combination of time and realism that killed him off. A character can only rape, kill and maim for so long before something gets him. When it came about that I didn't have the time to deal with him anymore it only seemed logical for his mortal enemy to kill him. I do regret it a bit because he was my first proper character but it was better than having him run off and come back a different character. Some of my characters have just of written their own endgame, I feel like I had little say in how their lives trailed off or ended.

Thorn's endgame was supposed to be going back and living in Russia and having the picture perfect life until he got old and died with his happy family around him. He was a good character and I wanted him to be happy as a reward. Then I needed a character to bring back to Souls and so I picked him. Given his age however (11), his lifesyle of partying hard, drinking too much and drugs he needs to die soon. I'm thinking something like cancer will get him in the end, again because of realism. Then his younger, interesting son will take over and perhaps his father's death will help with inspiration for him.

I've never been good at the whole "get a mate, become a leader and have pups" if only because I feel it would make the character boring to me. I prefer crazy characters or characters with vices. Making my very first character Everlasting Soul blind did wonders for my muse and then when I lost the muse he walked off a cliff as an endgame.
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#18
Everyone has such interesting reads about the topic! I really enjoyed reading them.

I've been playing Adonis since he was 4 months old, and I never imagined an end game ideal for him. He's been my "play it out as you go" character since the beginning; I never really plotted anything, and I just let things happen as they happen. As a result, he's had an extremely varied and eventful life, and it's bred a lot of drama and guilt for him as a result. But if I had to think of one for him, it'd probably be resolving the personal crisis he has with himself and/or having some kids to stress about. I don't think the personal issues he has can be swept under the rug completely, but we'll see as time goes on.
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#19
Wow, this is really old topic (I hadn’t even join ‘Souls yet!) but really interesting so I wanted to bring it up again because I’ve been contemplating the same things. Any oldies have new thoughts formulate over the last two years?
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#20
The real panic here with 'endgames' is that I don't have any...

Lots of characters right? Each of them different and none of them are ready to settle down. Thoirni's the oldest, but he has such a zest for life and being a ball of attitude that I can't put him down. Other characters feel like they're just getting started in their life and have a lot to achieve yet. I haven't been here that long, but nearly half of my characters I've been playing for a flat out year.

For some, I always imagine a 'courageous' end to them, I feel like Theon, Nero, Thoirni probably, and Delphine all feel like death will be their end game, defending something or someone. Others, I can imagine peacefully retiring at a ripe old age and being content and in love, hopefully-- Taro, Olivia, Snapdragon... Though the others, will probably never be 100% happy, Morty will probably drive herself to exhaustion trying to patch someone up, Laufey trying to find the place he belongs, Marne performing one more experiment, Rusty getting that one last heist. George trying to find a way to be himself without his family over his head. It's hard to imagine putting any of them away right now.

I really haven't gotten to a place with any of my characters other than ones I've had at other roleplay sites. I can recall my first real original character Owlstar settled down nicely enough, but that was after a life of awful events happening to him. He got his mate and they were just together and on their own. I thought he deserved a nice ending. Everyone else though, most of them are still young... plenty of time to pull the rug under their happy existences, more or less happy right now.

End games are for the end and when they're ending, I think I'll be able to find something for each of them.
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<span class="oliviaSigName">Olivia Tarasova</span>
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  Reply
#21
*points to endgame plan posted 2 years ago* Currently undergoing these changes now for Jazper, endgame is sad :( Still not sure exactly how he will die but I have another year or two before that happens XD


  Reply
#22
Oh gosh Mike and I had a very very.. VERY sad plot worked out for endgame o.o but that is a LOOOOOOOOOONG way off xD
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  Reply
#23
Hahahahaha, hahahaha, haha, haaaa, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!! ; 4 ;
  Reply
#24
I think I have Avi's endgame set up. I mean, she already hit the mate and pups stage, but I want to develop her even more after she has her puppies. Avinalora's always had it where she goes on a downward spiral and then gets in a good place and is recovering and then is hit by another downward spiral which is fun because I like the angst. Also, Avi's fiery personality is also really helpful because it gives me a lot of ideas of what I can do with her. There are also talks about her slowly moving away from her original medic idea and becoming more of a combat medic. Already, I've moved her from a polite and quiet character to a passionate, fiery character. I do have a possible endgame, but I want to see if I could play her until she's an old lady before dying heroically? I'd love to see if she'd mellow out or fire up in her old age.

I slowly want to work Iorek into a more mature and responsible character and maybe evolve his speech? His brother is helping with it since he is bringing out more of Iorek's personality other than his quiet, shy demeanor. I have been talking about puppies and romance for him, but I want to see if he could find another love or something. Unfortunately, I screwed up so he won't have a long lifespan, but it would be nice to play him into old age.

Also, agreeing with the others, it's harder for me to play happy optimistic characters with happy backstories. I don't have as much to play off of. Avi's abandonment issues really played a big part in her spiral after Midnight Shores fell and her fear of faliure that stemmed from her adopted mother's death was also fun to play off of during the Spring Sickness plot. Iorek losing his mother was also one of the things I played off of, having him flashback to the time his mother died and going into "beat mode" which later spurred some issues with him and control. The Syndicate Revenge plot also helped set him on the path of a medic, which I never envisioned for him but it happened. Also, Iorek came on board with a somewhat optimistic and somewhat happy, but lonely demeanor, and then I pulled the rug out from under him which made him more interesting to play.

For Garrett, I don't have that much of an end game. Maybe settle down? I'm open for him to do anything, really.

A lot of times I use certain plots to bring out my characters, and often they are unplanned. The Midnight Shores Disbandment, The Spring Sickness, and The Syndicate's Revenge plots were surprises, but oftentimes I use those to spur in my own character development and it often works in my favor. So, my characters one day dying in a board-wide or pack-wide plot is something that I have considered and probably might do.

I always envisioned my characters going down heroically, like sacrificing themselves and/or bleeding out. Though Iorek seems to me like he could die peacefully, though I still have a good 7 years on him. It's to early to tell, lol.

/end ramble


EDIT:
Lux Einar Wrote:Oh gosh Mike and I had a very very.. VERY sad plot worked out for endgame o.o but that is a LOOOOOOOOOONG way off xD
Lukos Greyfire Wrote:Hahahahaha, hahahaha, haha, haaaa, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!! ; 4 ;
Omfg pls no why (jk)
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  Reply
#25
I can't say for myself... but every time Shawchert reaches endgame she lets me kill her character! MUAHAHHAAHAHA!
  Reply
#26
All my endgames have been pretty tragic:

Zalen, out of his mind, fell off a cliff, seeing his lovers just before passing
Zera'im succumbed to tuberculosis
Lillith died from childbirth complications
Lahleia was ripped to shreds by coyotes
Ruby is the only mystery, I never decided how she died. I'd like to think she just disappeared like ObiWan and became a Force ghost :3


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  Reply
#27
I want to say Fenris will live a long and full life but I don't think that'll be the case. I just don't know how he'll go. Yet.

I do want him to learn to live with his issues and such, though.
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