OOC Accounts?

['Souls Assemblage]

What do you guys think of OOC accounts?

Some RP boards require an OOC account and all IC accounts to be linked to the OOC account. 'Souls has never had OOC accounts, but we're considering it?

Pros: 

• Clear IC/OOC divide
  
• OOC accounts can be used in OOC areas
  
• No need to re-link accounts when you change primary characters
  
• Can have custom titles/icons on OOC accounts vs IC accounts, etc.
  

Cons: 

• Requires new players create two accounts at minimum
  
• Can be confusing to players who are used to associating primary accounts with certain people
  
• Kiri has to spend time setting up OOC profiles to be different from IC profiles
  

We'd love to hear your thoughts on this since it would be significant organisational shift.

[Valerian Hollybriar]

Would IC character accounts still have access to titles and icons? And will OOC titles and icons have to be purchased in order to be obtained?

Other than that question, I think it’s a nifty idea! I like the idea of not having to shift primary accounts as I shuffle character order around. It’ll keep everything in one place during my times on ‘Souls rather than jumping between character accounts because I had different primaries through the years. It’ll take some adjustment, but I think it’d be a good quality of life update!

[Kiri]

Would IC character accounts still have access to titles and icons? And will OOC titles and icons have to be purchased in order to be obtained?

Oh, yeah. Basically nothing would change about IC accounts. We'd just add OOC accounts and then you'd have a whole extra account to put things on, but anything you wanna keep on your IC accounts would be fine.

[Saga D'Angelo]

I love this idea tbh!

The whole not having to mess around with changing primaries would be great and honestly, I'm excited at the prospect of being able to have titles and icons that are personal rather than choosing what does and does fit well on my IC accounts!

I also don't think the cons are too problematic?  aside from giving poor Kiri more work to do

[Calrian Amaranthe]

I think OOC accounts would be great, if it's not too much trouble!

If someone decides to change their OOC name, would it be the same as it is currently (changing it on the UCP) or would it require some extra steps?

[Fennore]

I'm into this! Granted, it would be a bit of a learning curve, but we're already adjusting to a new forum anyway so ;>

I do have a question, though: right now, pack leaders have those special pack permissions/access to leadership stuff on their primary IC accounts. Would those permissions remain on the IC accounts or shift to OOC accounts if we go that route?

I'd also be interested to see how we can accumulate OOC titles and icons and how to purchase them :o But this switch would really help with shifting around primaries and all that jazz!

[Kiri]

If someone decides to change their OOC name, would it be the same as it is currently (changing it on the UCP) or would it require some extra steps?

I think we could probably just leave it as is and let users change their OOC username themselves within reason (might be an overall limit + minimum time between changes, but this is already in place for IC accounts anyway).

I do have a question, though: right now, pack leaders have those special pack permissions/access to leadership stuff on their primary IC accounts. Would those permissions remain on the IC accounts or shift to OOC accounts if we go that route?

This is a good question. Do you have a preference?

I think it'd make sense to grant access to the IC account just to keep all leader-related permissions on the same account, but I think we could go either way on this.

[Valerian Hollybriar]

Another question! How would people with the same OOC name be handled? I don't think this is a problem now since I think all of our current players have unique names, but I know some names can be common!

[Sian Damaichu]

Having hunted around various accounts for stuff like art threads and PM's unrelated to specific characters, I think it'd be handy to have everything Rat-and-not-character-related on one account xD 
And also the switching primary thing.

Sorry for my lack of eloquence, it's been a stressy day and me no word good.

[Kiri]

Another question! How would people with the same OOC name be handled? I don't think this is a problem now since I think all of our current players have unique names, but I know some names can be common!

Probably the same as the Wiki's page URLs, where we can say hello to Amanda 1, Amanda 2, Amanda 3, Amanda 4, and Alex 1-3, Alexander, and Alexandra. ;D So, unfortunately first come, first serve for those names, or folks can go with initials a la elementary school, Alex B, Alex F, etc. (In high school, I once had two Jeff Taylors in the same class, so we had to go with middle initial, Jeff O Taylor, Jeff A Taylor, lololol).

[Fennore]

This is a good question. Do you have a preference?

I think it'd make sense to grant access to the IC account just to keep all leader-related permissions on the same account, but I think we could go either way on this.

Yeah, if we kept them on IC accounts, then you wouldn't have to move around all those leaders' permissions to their OOC accounts! I wouldn't have a preference either way, I don't think. Although, other leaders might have reasons to feel one way or the other.

[Nayavota Denahlii]

I voted "I prefer the current system" before I really realized that, y'know, I should ask if it's possible to do the thing that would make me ambivalent before voting (might use it, might not).

Is it possible on the new board for the current OOC name field (as it's used on IC accounts) to link to an account, instead of just listing the name? For example, Kyrios Lykoi linking to Kiri without having to go through Kyrios' profile, and vice versa. 

On my bad days, I all but rely on knowing whose primary is whose to immediately understand who I'm talking to/reading from (especially with shared/similar OOC names), and being able to click a link/hover over it for more information (like all their active characters), etc. would go a long way toward keeping things same-y enough that it wouldn't be offputting.

I'm sure I'd ultimately adjust, as would most people, but it feels like a lot of change on top of everything else for anyone who's having a hard time adjusting already. *raises hand*

[Kiri]

Is it possible on the new board for the current OOC name field (as it's used on IC accounts) to link to an account, instead of just listing the name? For example, Kyrios Lykoi linking to Kiri without having to go through Kyrios' profile, and vice versa.

This would be the default if we go the OOC account route, since the master account would be listed from all linked accounts. In fact, we could enable all linked accounts in a group be listed from every other account. For example, given master (OOC) account A, who has characters B, C, and D. The profile of B would link and list A, as well as C and D, if we wanted.

ETA: oh I realised you meant thread view here; the linking would be default in profiles, but I could see what I could do with thread view.

There could also be a link from thread view that lists a dropdown of all attached accounts, though we may still keep the OOC name field on IC accounts because it may be easier to format for thread view.

The adjustment period would probably be weird, yeah, though adjusting to a new thing while already adjust to new things may be better than adjusting to a new thing every month?

And for me personally, I have a lot of difficulty remember character names because I'm often not actively RPing and don't have much IC associative knowledge of characters, so OOC accounts would really help me remember who the heck is posting, especially in OOC areas.

Would really love to hear the other dissenting opinions! My main concern with swapping is just more initial work and potential hurdles for new players, but we have also had newcomers ask about OOC accounts in the past, so perhaps they're becoming more pervasive in other games, too. Having an OOC account as default may also encourage players to hang out OOCly and acclimate to the game and ask questions before joining, too, so maybe it'd work out as a net gain.

[Nayavota Denahlii]

There could also be a link from thread view that lists a dropdown of all attached accounts, though we may still keep the OOC name field on IC accounts because it may be easier to format for thread view.

The adjustment period would probably be weird, yeah, though adjusting to a new thing while already adjust to new things may be better than adjusting to a new thing every month?

And for me personally, I have a lot of difficulty remember character names because I'm often not actively RPing and don't have much IC associative knowledge of characters, so OOC accounts would really help me remember who the heck is posting, especially in OOC areas.

That would be very helpful for me, and I do think keeping the OOC name field the same on IC accounts would be a good idea; it would better differentiate IC and OOC acounts, too.

True! Especially pre-relinking of accounts, since rolling this change out after would make it more inaccessible (even for people for really want OOC accounts).

That's a really good point I wasn't thinking of; I had it in my head that old returning members may find making new OOC accounts on top of new IC accounts a pain, but not that they'd have no idea who was who without them. In that vein, may I also suggest a profile field (if possible) for previous OOC names? Not everyone would use it, but not everyone has player pages/accurate player pages on the wiki, and having the option of including old names somewhere on board might be just useful enough to be worth it (I'd def include mine).

[Kamari Kaiser]

I'd be for OOC accounts.

For Leaders and Staff, having OOC accounts would mean that Leaders/Staff would not have to hunt down a player's primary character to contact them for activity warnings and other issues. For everyone, having a centralized account would mean no confusion when players don't have a primary listed, or, have multiple different primaries listed. For CS too, it could go to an actual player account vs. their main.

Possible problem; would there be a clear and unmistakable way to differentiate Player and Character accounts? For example, Player Wolf and Character Wolf? Could PMs be completely disabled on character accounts to prevent player confusion of sending a PM meant for Player Wolf, not Character Wolf?

Possible problem; when players join the forum, would there be a way to join as a Player account and a different way to join as a Character account? As in, the player would know from the get-go that they are making an OOC account vs. a general account that they'd have to then figure out the rules and, "oops, I didn't know I had to register an OOC and IC. I want this to be my character"?

[Pallas Nephus]

I vote yes to ooc accounts.
I’ve played on various sites that use them and in honesty they clean up a lot of confusion, with all accounts linked to one main player account where pms are sent.

[Kiri]

Possible problem; would there be a clear and unmistakable way to differentiate Player and Character accounts? For example, Player Wolf and Character Wolf? Could PMs be completely disabled on character accounts to prevent player confusion of sending a PM meant for Player Wolf, not Character Wolf?

There would probably be a dropdown/checkbox selection for whether an account is OOC and or IC, which would determine how the account looks in profile view. I'd endeavour to make them reasonably different to make it obvious. Unfortunately, I think all custom fields need to be displayed to all accounts (in UCP), so the accounts would have confusing access to both IC and OOC-related fields, even if only certain ones are displayed in the profile depending on the account, but this is something I'd need to look into more. All of the specific arrangement of custom fields is probably the most time consuming aspect of implementing this.

And accounts would still need to have unique names. If there's an OOC account "Wolf" there would not also be an IC account "Wolf." Given the typical given name + surname structure of most IC accounts though, this shouldn't be a huge issue. But yes, players could still disable PMs on accounts, though this wouldn't prevent accounts with override permissions (staff, leaders) from PMing those accounts.

Possible problem; when players join the forum, would there be a way to join as a Player account and a different way to join as a Character account? As in, the player would know from the get-go that they are making an OOC account vs. a general account that they'd have to then figure out the rules and, "oops, I didn't know I had to register an OOC and IC. I want this to be my character"?

The dropdown selection for account type can be required at registration.

[Salem]

'Souls is pretty much the only forum I've ever done anything on, so I'm used to the way things are but don't really care if we change them. The OOC account sounds like a good enough idea to me given all the reasons people have listed here.

A couple stray thoughts on recent posts:
-Would it be possible to limit OOC accounts to OOC forums, and IC accounts to IC forums? This would theoretically get around some confusion regarding if someone were to play a character named Lin while I had a Lin OOC account, etc.
-If we go through with this, it might be in everyone's best interest to have new players accepted ICly by the 'SA before they are allowed to make an OOC account, if only to cut down on name redundancies/sheer number of accounts. This runs into the issue of them not being able to access on-board help, though, which presents other problems.
-Would this actually eliminate the need to differentiate between primary and auxiliary characters outside of slot requesting and leadership purposes?

As a side note, not sure if new-forum-glitchy-weirdness or what, but the forum seems to think I've already voted and is giving me results on this poll when I have not actually voted at all. 

[Kiri]

Would it be possible to limit OOC accounts to OOC forums, and IC accounts to IC forums? This would theoretically get around some confusion regarding if someone were to play a character named Lin while I had a Lin OOC account, etc.

Yup, that'd be the plan. Very easy to restrict OOC accounts to OOC forums.

If we go through with this, it might be in everyone's best interest to have new players accepted ICly by the 'SA before they are allowed to make an OOC account, if only to cut down on name redundancies/sheer number of accounts. This runs into the issue of them not being able to access on-board help, though, which presents other problems.

Nah, we wouldn't go this route. I think the reverse -- allowing OOC accounts prior to game joining -- is much more beneficial. In general, it's not a big issue to have too many accounts, though I intended to purge a bunch of never used/never actually logged back in after registering accounts pre-migration but forgot. The current board is set to auto-purge accounts that are never activated, at least, but in general our principle is to leave accounts alone in case people come back. The overhead on having a bunch of accounts is relatively low.

For OOC accounts, the only issue wrt to too many accounts may be the much higher chance of names being taken VS IC accounts. Our policy for (IC) account names is generally that if it's never been used ICly, then if someone else wants that name later, we'll delete the prior account to free up the name. For OOC accounts, this may be trickier, since someone may still be interested in joining even if they've never posted from their IC account, but we'll likely look at other metrics, such as last login, to determine whether someone's likely to return, but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Would this actually eliminate the need to differentiate between primary and auxiliary characters outside of slot requesting and leadership purposes?

Pretty much.

As a side note, not sure if new-forum-glitchy-weirdness or what, but the forum seems to think I've already voted and is giving me results on this poll when I have not actually voted at all.

Looks like Loners got messed up and removed from the "Registered" user group, which is the group with voting permissions. I've restored them for Salem and will do the other loners now. D;

[Evelyn Escuella]

So... I had to give myself some time to really think about this because the concept is so different (just call me ol' faithful i guess ok never gonna give u up, 'souls). But the more I do, the more I really like this idea?? Having true, permanent primary in the form of an OOC account would It would provide a huge benefit to staff and leaders, and also make it so much easier for everyone to keep track of OOC vs IC stuff.

Oh man, and would it be possible to disable certain things from IC accounts? E.g. voting? Not that it's been a huge problem historically, but I'm thinking come Yearbook time, if only OOC accounts can vote then that would help eliminate the potential for folks to double-vote, yeah?

Ok and i'm not gonna lie: I really like the idea of having OOC icons/titles on OOC accounts and allowing those icons specific to a character to take center stage. Would OOC accounts have their own little "pack" icon? (Pls?)

[Kiri]

Oh man, and would it be possible to disable certain things from IC accounts? E.g. voting?

Yup, if we go with OOC accounts, most permissions for IC accounts in OOC areas would be disabled. Also, this board allows staff to see who voted what without digging into the database, which makes spotting voting fraud via multiple accounts super easy.

Would OOC accounts have their own little "pack" icon? (Pls?)

Maybe? At the very least, OOC accounts could let users set their own title/"ranks" lol.

[Iomair]

I think the pros in this case far outweigh the cons!

I took some time to think about it - as with all things it adds another layer to the game that I wasn't sure if I liked or not. But! As someone who routinely is horrible at updating her own wiki this is something that organizationally makes a-lot of sense. I love the idea of not having to look for a Primary Account to PM for important things, and I love the concept of only one vote per active writer a la year book/other vote stuff.

I'm not sure that having OOC accounts will see an uptick in engagement on board in our OOC Sub-Forums, if only because Discord has become such a huge OOC aspect of the game.

[Arran Fir-Chlis]

Souls is the only board I've ever been on without OOC accounts and I would love to have them! :D

[Kiri]

Okay, seems like an overwhelming majority are for OOC accounts. I'll work on implementing this as soon as I can. A little behind on things because I put off a bunch of work to do 'Souls during migration week and now it's coming back to bite me. 8D

Would still love to hear from nay-voters: if ya'll have specific concerns about OOC accounts and how they'll be implemented, do reach out either in this topic or to SA via PM and we'll see if we can address them or find a solution around them with regard to how we implement OOC accounts.

[Nazario del Bosque]

I mean, I don't feel strongly either way -

As amanda said, I feel like a lot more of the OOC engagement is on discord! The only advantage I could really *think* of would be a nice little hub that links all the character accounts together that wouldn't need unlinking/relinking with primaries, etc., and maybe a place to put the OOC sort of fun icon prizes from the board scavenger hunt type things?

But I dunno, I like the context of titles on IC accounts, their icons, etc. I notice that people who keep track of OOC catacombs tend to do so on their wikis.

But otherwise I feel kinda "eh!" about it :v it kinda just feels like one other account to kinda maintain and remember, and feel as though I personally would forget to check it all the time;;;

[Calan Brecours]

I'm in favour of this, if posting to multiple accounts is a seamless process from the OOC account. In theory, something like that works - but generally what I've found on websites with OOC accounts where you're required to shift accounts to post (like how it was on the old site), people never actually return to the OOC account, and end up defaulting to viewing the website on their 'primary' character. And considering OOC chat is less active than IC posting, it might not get used much, PMs get ignored, etc. etc. I see that the new reply box has something similar, but I haven't been able to test how that would work with multiple accounts. This problem might just fix itself with the new site?

This is the only iffy thing I see. Otherwise, I'm all in favour of it. I love having an OOC account and would love to have an easier time tracking who plays who.