Re: Help with skills and stuff for a puppy/youngster

POSTED: Mon May 28, 2018 11:02 am

Alvira Phoenix wrote:She would most likely consider herself a "warrior witch" though she finds her "Running, stealth, climbing, evasion, agility" skill (I need to condense that) is important to her since she feels that she feels that she is the best at it and to her, it's a useful and what her personality does cater to with her quick thinking, wit, cunning, and guile. But after that, her combat and witchcraft abilities equally important after that since she took to the nanigata and her reaction here. Her feral combat skill would also be an important skill to her since it was something her mother taught her and she felt that she was best suited towards with her Secui form. And spending her youth in Anathema and CoR being exposed to witchcraft put her on that path. Her low-speech skills would also be important to her ornithomancy path as well. Her healing and sewing skills were taught to her by her family and she finds them both useful to her while hunting and reading were basic skills she had to learn.

To me, it still sounds like you are listing off every skill and attempting to justify it. You are relating it back to Alvira and her feelings, which is good, but it still sounds like a school assignment rather than a character sketch. :) Again, I recommend going from the ground up.

You mention Alvira considers herself a “warrior witch,” and it sounds like her skills in agility/stealth are equally important to her. I feel like this is a good foundation to start from. These skills can relate to each other and help create a character.

She uses her cunning and agility to be a good fighter – maybe she is proud of her mind? Her faith also seems equally important. How do these tie into each other? Now Alvira is knowledgeable about one weapon, as well as evasion/agility and low speech (a skill for her “witchcraft”). For a young character, that is pretty good. :) Even an older character can be proficient in only those few things, but just be even better at them!

And so why bother adding the other skills? Feral combat, healing, and sewing all sounds like things her family is trying to teach her because they place importance on it or that it’s “useful.” But you might find that “useful” is less of a motivation than “this is fun and I’m good at it.” Learning how to do taxes is useful, but who would waste time on that when they could be improving on one of their passions, like playing an instrument or drawing?

So why should these be important to Alvira when she could be focusing on the few skills she has? Logically, these might make sense to learn or be “useful,” but remember that this would be splitting her between a ton of different lessons. That wouldn’t be very fun for Alvira, who would probably be daydreaming about her next nanigata lesson. This could give you some fun conflict in her youth. What is her relationship with Avinalora like versus her relationship with her nanigata mentor?

(Basic skills like hunting and reading are okay, because any Luperci has the instinct to hunt simple critters to survive, and reading was introduced from a young age. I don’t think you’ll forget those.)



TL;DR – Rather than listing skills and trying to find out what is important to Alvira, figure out the few things that are truly important to her character/that she values, and take out the skills with “weaker” justifications. Nanigata, agility, low speech = good and she can improve on those as she gets older.
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POSTED: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:13 am

Vicira Tears wrote:To me, it still sounds like you are listing off every skill and attempting to justify it. You are relating it back to Alvira and her feelings, which is good, but it still sounds like a school assignment rather than a character sketch. :) Again, I recommend going from the ground up.

You mention Alvira considers herself a “warrior witch,” and it sounds like her skills in agility/stealth are equally important to her. I feel like this is a good foundation to start from. These skills can relate to each other and help create a character.

She uses her cunning and agility to be a good fighter – maybe she is proud of her mind? Her faith also seems equally important. How do these tie into each other? Now Alvira is knowledgeable about one weapon, as well as evasion/agility and low speech (a skill for her “witchcraft”). For a young character, that is pretty good. :) Even an older character can be proficient in only those few things, but just be even better at them!


Yep! I'm counting on a lot of mistakes on her end with her skills. She's had a couple of slip-ups with low-speech and at times in some threads I imagine her just pointing or making wide signals to direct the birds since she doesn't know certain words yet. In most to all of her skills, she's a novice in pretty much all of them or even less than that.
(I don't think I've ever actually done a character sketch before and I think school trained me too well XD)

Vicira Tears wrote:And so why bother adding the other skills? Feral combat, healing, and sewing all sounds like things her family is trying to teach her because they place importance on it or that it’s “useful.” But you might find that “useful” is less of a motivation than “this is fun and I’m good at it.” Learning how to do taxes is useful, but who would waste time on that when they could be improving on one of their passions, like playing an instrument or drawing?

So why should these be important to Alvira when she could be focusing on the few skills she has? Logically, these might make sense to learn or be “useful,” but remember that this would be splitting her between a ton of different lessons. That wouldn’t be very fun for Alvira, who would probably be daydreaming about her next nanigata lesson. This could give you some fun conflict in her youth. What is her relationship with Avinalora like versus her relationship with her nanigata mentor?

I'll probably take out sewing since she probably won't learn it for a while seeing as some things have changed for her. I'm not sure what to do with her healing skill though I lowered it to novice since she has been said to know some herbs already.

I may also lower her focus on unarmed combat or merge feral and unarmed together possibly? She fights in an almost feral manner even on two legs and since things have changed, she probably would primarily use feral combat and as of now, use the principles of which in Optime combat.

Since as of now, her development will be a lot different for plot reasons since she will be primarily sticking close to her mother but her learning shouldn't change too much~

Vicira Tears wrote:(Basic skills like hunting and reading are okay, because any Luperci has the instinct to hunt simple critters to survive, and reading was introduced from a young age. I don’t think you’ll forget those.)

(Oaky)

Vicira Tears wrote:TL;DR – Rather than listing skills and trying to find out what is important to Alvira, figure out the few things that are truly important to her character/that she values, and take out the skills with “weaker” justifications. Nanigata, agility, low speech = good and she can improve on those as she gets older.

Okay! I'll go through her skills and see what I can move out~

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POSTED: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:54 am

I'm not sure what to do with her healing skill though I lowered it to novice since she has been said to know some herbs already.


This is one of the problems with a grocery list of "skills" and the desire to record every tiny little thing a character might know.

As I mentioned, making a point to specifically list something as a skill implies a lot. Even at the lowest and most basic of levels, if you bothered to list it, it seems like it should be important to the character. But it's totally fine to have working understanding of things that aren't "skills" per se.

It is totally fine to have "some knowledge of herbs" without having a specific "healing skill."

You aren't likely to forget that Avinalora is a healer. You aren't likely to forget that Alvira is Avinalora's daughter. It makes perfect sense that Alvira can have "some knowledge of herbs" give those former two facts. She absolutely does not need to have any specific "healing skill" in order for that to hold true.

But I think as soon as you specifically list a "healing skill," it becomes easy for both you and others to misunderstand the extent of actual skill that's present. Basic knowledge of a thing isn't the same as having skill.

I have the basic ability to identify cooking herbs and can use them in cooking, but honestly, I have absolutely zero ability to actually use those cooking herbs in a manner anyone would think of as "skillful." I know what pepper looks like and what it tastes like but that sure doesn't mean my dumping a ton of it on everything is a "skill."

I may also lower her focus on unarmed combat or merge feral and unarmed together possibly? She fights in an almost feral manner even on two legs and since things have changed, she probably would primarily use feral combat and as of now, use the principles of which in Optime combat.


I don't think these are things that can be merged together, no. Fighting on all fours and fighting on two legs is inherently different, particularly if someone is supposed to have had focused training in one or the other. Can you imagine trying to translate specific techniques you're using when fighting on two legs to fighting on four?

A character might have certain styles that are present in both forms of fighting -- maybe they like to dart in, make an attack, and quickly jump back. This is something that can be done in either form, sure. But as soon as you get more specific than that? That's probably not something that translates as well.

It really only makes sense for fighting to be similar in multiple forms if the character is untrained in either form, imo.

Since as of now, her development will be a lot different for plot reasons since she will be primarily sticking close to her mother but her learning shouldn't change too much~


Another thing about grocery list skill-building -- it's often hard to predict where plots will take you, especially when a character is young. Better to build skills as you go and add to your list as-needed, rather than having a huge list from the get-go and not knowing how you're actually going to get there.

Not to mention, that makes things way less confusing for anyone trying to look up details about a character. Things planned for the future haven't happened yet; it might be best to keep only what's done and set on the wiki. :P You can always keep personal reference docs on your local computer.
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POSTED: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:38 pm

Silver, why is low speech important to her divination skill?

Divination is the interpretation of signs and symbols. If she walks up to her birds and they tell her something, that is not divination. That is just a conversation.


It looks like with Alvira, you're just absorbing all of Avi's skillsets and interests. Perhaps you're doing that because you're so emotionally attached to Avi and don't want to let her go, but want a new char because I know you feel Avi has been painted into a corner. From what I see, at least from the perspective I can comment on with ritual magic, paganism, and divination, Alvira's skills are severely throttled. Alvira just turned 6 months a few days ago. She would be far too young and immature to have much of a handle or interest at all in those things... especially since Avinalora never practiced those skills either. It might be beneficial to just take a step back and reconsider why Alvira is picking up those skills. Are you sure this is the right path for this character? Are you certain you want to keep all these old Avi traits and not create something new? Didn't you talk about exploring a new path of faith/magic for her? Angels (which correspond with crystal magic and crystal divinatuin)? That could be really fun and interesting and might be a more dynamic system for her than the raven/bird divination (if I try spelling it Imma get it wrong).

I'm 100% with Kiri and her advice not to step in with a preset list of skills. Some interests for sure, but all of these skills? I mean, Alvira is only 6 months old. For the first two months of their lives, they're just blobs of milk-drinking floof. For the other four they are exploring their environment, and going through all the same troubles and trials as their family (the coven, the AT war, etc). If Alvira just turned 6 months on May 29 and began shifting how's she so skilled at all of these fighting styles? Or anything with ritual magic (beyond meditation or prayers) if Avi hasn't even been practicing and Alvira hasn't had hands to practice spellcraft with?

I know most players look at young/puppy characters as a fun opportunity to delve into RP with a blank slate and see what happens. Of course we want a little bit of direction for each character so they need some interests and such, but it looks like Alvira is being set up like a fully adult character and not a character who is the equivalent of a 10 year old human.
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POSTED: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:22 pm

@Kiri
I have gone ahead and removed sewing and first aid from the entire skills category (except for the note that she was exposed to it, though I may remove that too)

I'll also keep the fighting skills distinct and I'll keep that in mind when noting skills!


@Nuki
I do see your point about the divination. I'll take that part out about the the low-speech connecting to her divanation. And I am intrigued by the crystals and will look more into that. I have totally removed the entire witchcraft part from her skills section.

I kind of do agree that I am a bit attached to Avi, though I am trying to separate from her from her mother. I have steered her away from the herbalism and want to focus her mobility-related skills as a warrior as well as witchcraft as well. I also might want to expand more into her spirituality as well.

(The skills were the post-shifting that she would be learning and what she would have when she is a yearling, I have revamped it since.)


Also, I totally kinda revamped Alvira's future skills section. I went off of Raze's with Merai (Hope you don't mind~) with just the possible interests and skills. Not sure if it still needs to be hidden but there's no heading anymore so it's easy to miss. They're ones that I hope she'd go into though the only few I'm certain is the agility/evasion/stealth though I do want her to go into combat and witchcraft. The original stuff that was there is hidden by the nifty comment feature for my own reference (since I fear that I will not always have a doc with me and I trust the wiki and feel like I can always access it from anywhere).

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