Main Bonfire Thread - Jan 31st - North Shore beach

POSTED: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:09 am

OOC: set for the evening of Jan 31st on the North Shore beach. Free posting order! Feel free to split off and have side threads, too. :D WC: 512

Along with some other Krokar members, Lucille and Gus arrived the morning of the feast. She would have liked to arrive sooner, but this timeframe would have to do this time. A trip out of the pack with four puppies whose eyes had just barely opened was very nerve wracking for the first time mother, and she guessed that Gus was nervous about it as well. She refused to be on four paws for the bonfire that Krokar and Sapient were having together; she felt too small like that and did not want to be looking up at people even more than usual the whole night.

It was cold next to the ocean, and so she kept the two puppies she was holding swaddled against her chest. She kept a blanket wrapped around herself as well to further block the wind as she watched the setup complete. She had helped where she could, but it was difficult while keeping two puppies warm, too, and eventually her brother-in-law, Finlay, scolded her and told her to sit. So she did.

Finlay was not the only Krokar member pitching in with the setup. Iroquois provided some of the meat they had for the feast, and others were being helpful wherever they could. Lucille was glad to see how much help the packs had given each other through the past couple of weeks. Miwa helped her patch the barn wall and she saw other Sapiens around Krokar from time to time. The Captain hoped that Krokar members had been just as generous with their time.

As discussed with the leadership of Sapient, this feast and bonfire were meant to launch an official alliance between the packs. The specific terms were still in progress, but they were nearly complete. She felt good, having an ally in the north, one the pack could count on for trade and help if necessary.

The celebration was also a traditional festival for Krokar. While they normally would have had an ice fishing competition and caribou races, this year they decided that they would celebrate with their neighbors and share this tradition with them. It may not be as fancy as the ball she attended, but she hoped they enjoyed it.

When everything was set up, Lucille waited until the other leaders were gathered and then she tipped her head back and called for everyone who was not already there. She looked over the faces as they gathered and then she stood, keeping the blanket around her shoulders.

"Thank you for coming, everyone, and for all the help you have given to Krokar over the past few weeks. We hope to continue being helpful to you as well and prove that we are good allies. Tonight we would like to share with you the end of our traditional winter celebrations, which is simply this: a feast and a bonfire where we share in the camaraderie of our pack. I hope that you enjoy it." She extended one hand from the warmth of the blanket cocoon and invited everyone to start the party.

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POSTED: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:41 am

Liz hadn't been able to do as much hard work over the cold season as she would have liked, but she had the best of excuses: a young daughter who needed her, and a soon to be mate had occupied her heart and mind for the past month. She had felt the gradual building of excitement in Krokar, though, and she shared in it, eager to make the trip to Sapient to celebrate.

From Miwa, who had been good with the caribou and actually paid attention to her waffling, to Akantha, who had been pretty and amiable, to Austri, who had made her a warm coat for pregnancy, Liz liked what she had seen of their neighbours so far. She knew also that the Sapiens had been helping wherever they could to mend the damage done by the inclement weather to Krokar's village. The Cormier woman had spied a few of them around the territory, tending to odds and ends and things which needed doing in general, and she was eager to see what their home territory was like.

Willow was still young, but older than some of the other pups who would be at the gathering, so after much consideration Liz had decided to bring her daughter along for her first taste of another territory. In truth, Liz was probably more eager than the pup to see Sapient – she imagined it to be overflowing with treasures and technologies she knew nothing about, and it would be an adventure. Willow slept for most of the journey, wrapped up well and nestling against Liz's chest, and her Mother was glad, not for the first time, that she had a child who could settle easily. It probably helped that the little wolfdog had no siblings to goad her into staying awake for too long.

Eliza had put together some cooked meats and small baked goods for the occasion. They were simple fare, not fancily decorated, and she had tried to avoid anything which might be an acquired taste since she didn't know what their neighbours' flavour preferences were, but Liz was excited to see how the Sapiens reacted to them. As long as she saw them tucking in and not leaving a ten foot radius around the cooked food she would be happy.

The beach was a little chilly, but the bonfire would sort that out in no time, along with the good company. Liz approached the gathered leaders dressed in her green cloak from Austri, a fur wrapped around her below it in which Willow was swaddled, facing outward so she could see what was going on. The child cooed at the shape of Lucille, obviously recognising her Aunt and newly seeing cousins, and Liz grinned at the faces she saw.

Liz listened solemnly to Lucille's words and found them appropriate. She had always been enthusiastic in sharing her family's traditions with others, and Sapient seemed like a good choice for an alliance. They were close enough to Krokar that they could aid each other when it was needed, and the humanised pack would obviously be good for trading with and learning from. Though she was neither leader nor Navigator, Liz felt as if Krokar was her extended family, and she was excited for this new chapter in their establishment.

When Lucille finished speaking, Willow let out a delighted coo of, “Ba-ba beeeee!” Liz chuckled, patting her daughter's head before making her way towards the food, keen to see what, other than her offerings, there was. She was always on the lookout for new recipes and concoctions. She realised, with a start, that this was her first time being confronted with alcohol since her pregnancy, and she hovered near the drinks for a few moments, debating.


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Luperci Mate to Milos as one we are everything we need
Don't Stop Me Now

POSTED: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:49 pm

WC: 858

Arms folded and gaze set to sea, the beast found his solace in the rolling waves. There was to be a celebration tonight, and it certainly sounded to be more of his type than the lavish balls and festivals he'd attended since the snows reached the earth. Even so, he couldn't help but have the thoughts of the white season fill him. All the work he'd accomplished, and very little of it was rewarded. That was pack life, though. A single ant could not build a hill on it's own. Every member needed to do their part, and bragging rights were simply a fringe benefit. One that Shaamah never took. He'd report his workings to those that inquired, and then continue on pace. Toil with be doubled if it was required, or even mentioned, and the extra work didn't bother the beast. He thrived when there was something to keep him moving. Due to that, the warrior had embraced the little amount of free time in stride.

The soldier had certainly accomplished a great deal in winter, but it was expected. The chilled weather was his time to really push himself without health issues coming up from the heat. It was safe to say he, himself, had felled half of the trade route that lead to Krokar, and with the wood, he'd offered a gift to Midnight Shores, and aided Gus in patching the rooftops of Sapient. He and a mute by the name of Storm had worked it out, even with their differences, to free themselves from a cavern that had trapped them in snow. He'd acted as an escort to Akantha and visited the festivities in the pack over, and had even sparked a trade with a Krokar Leather worker. In all this, Austri had even found the time to pester him into frivolities, to which he hadn't expected at all. Harks rolled back at that final thought, not entirely pleased with himself to add that item to the list. She was a childish woman, and the soldier knew it was in good nature, but good nature was something that he lacked when his work was put on the line.

Either way, the labor outweighed the play-time, and the short lived free activity was probably looked more highly upon in Sapient for his attempts to be more social. The man could work a thousand days and still be looked lowly upon by his peers. That was, of course, the culture. He had no wealth, of which these souls valued. He wasn't phased at all. He knew his time would come. Yet, before he could dwell on a battle that may never come, a call sounded over the sands of the northern shore. The voice wasn't recognized, but it was likely Krokar's host for the bonfire that was to claim the evening.

Releasing his arms and turning north, he started the small journey toward the gathering that he'd been early for, but a safe enough distance away as to not trouble the guests as they set up. He wasn't about to take their moment of offering from them, despite the idea that he might have looked rather lazy watching the ocean while barely able to be seen from afar. Close enough to arrive quickly, but far enough to be ignored. It was the way he seemed to live these days, and it certainly didn't bother him in this slightest.

After he had arrived, his towering frame stood on the outside of the gathering. Despite his title of Opus Inter, he wasn't going to risk the glares and disappointment that his those of own pack, or those who knew little of him in Sapient, were likely to shower him with. A few faces he had expected to see, however, would be noted. Akantha would certainly be present, or so he might figure unless her pups came first. It wouldn't be too odd for them, however. It seemed there was a great deal of youth here tonight. Diarmid and Miwa were also expected, thought the latter wasn't exactly something he'd be disappointed to miss. Kin might be present as well, but Shaamah held off on his assumptions of her still. Her position would have him well enough leave her be, if she so chose it.

A solid dip of his crown were offered to those who were present after the speech, whether he showed previous distaste for them, or not. These pack festivities were a prime example of how those in their neighboring packs would treat one another, and it would be far worse a note in his favor to treat anyone poorly. A certain woman was in mind, Miwa seeming more a child despite her age, but to cause any form of tension here wouldn't be welcomed. Krokar was offering it's best celebration for the winter to them, and he wasn't one to cause any sort of scene for such a favor. Even Shaamah was able to show respect and restraint, where it was due.
Show'em the Ol'Razzle Dazzle
The Warden
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Luperci Mate to Kaeli
War is in My Heart

POSTED: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:44 pm

Time had slipped soundlessly and brilliantly away from him in the weeks following the announcement of Krokar's budding alliance with Sapient. With their Herdsman down to the south, establishing the pack's new trading Depot, and a massive influx of new livestock and Guppies that needed consistent observation and care, Milos had remained dutifully busy. Hazel had been indispensable to the stability of the livestock and though many in the pack helped to care for the caribou, he couldn't have been able to keep them so happy and healthy without help from Claude and his beloved Eliza.

A smile cracked broadly across his dark face, the corners of his lips pinching at the corners of his eyes and igniting them in brightness and warmth. Despite her tender diligence toward her young daughter, Willow, Eliza had spent a lot of her free time helping with the caribou. So much so that she recently acquired the Herdsman title and moved up in ranks. He had never considered himself above the wiry Cormier but now they were of equal status and Milos was immensely proud of his mate-to-be.

He considered this cheerfully as he worked, helping Krokarans and Sapiens alike with the set-up and decorations. With his Captains, Lucille and Gus, caring for their young litter and his Navigator, Semini, looking after her own tiny pair, Milos chose to travel up to Sapient the day before, Sorcha and Iroquois in tow, in order to help spearhead the preparations. With their relationship in full swing, it had been distinctly hard leaving Eliza behind and sleep had been altogether impossible the night he spent in Sapient. But it was only a day and he was excited get things started and to reconnect with some of the Sapiens he had fallen in with.

Interactions with Akantha, of course, had always been equal parts joy and dread. At least until recently, when her flirtatious advances had eased up and they could converse more comfortably as friends without the odd tension between them. During his first visit to Sapient, back in the autumn, Milos had met the pack's own Tailor, Austri. He was excited to see her again and discuss their trade and any knew knowledge they might have acquired. There was also Cillian, who he had shared caribou knowledge with only a couple weeks earlier. And, of course, Kin. She had saved his life during that horrendous snow storm and the pair had been snowed in together within that cold, dank diner in Bathurst.

All of these face danced before his eyes and the excitement built steadily in his chest for this afternoon, when the bonfire would be lit and the feast would begin.

He greeted his Captains the following morning, glad they had made it safely with their four Guppies in tow. Milos helped Krokaran and Sapien alike set up the stables and stools, set out cups and platters, gather wood for the bonfire, and lay out the food and drink. All the while their Striker, Iroquois, had provided a haunch of deer and set to work roasting its meat slowly over a spit while Sorcha, salty from the knowledge there would be no ice fishing competition this year, moped while she cleaned and prepared the fish she had caught.

With all the commotion going on and the work to be done, he hadn't had much opportunity to look up let alone search the crowd for familiar faces. When Lucille's voice broke through the winter air, Milos hung back and listened with a warm smile. The coo that followed the completion of her words brought an immediately warmth to his chest and he offered a short laugh before breaking through the crowd to find them: Eliza and Willow.

He found her, finally, glancing keenly at the drinks and crept as silently as he could up behind her, aiming to wrap his ivory hands around her eyes with a chuckling, "Guess who?"

[WC: 663]

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Luperci Mate to Eliza but you'd become my candle in the dark
the sun still rises
even through the rain

POSTED: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:12 pm

OOC: Sylven's presence okayed by Rat. :D WC: 624

Naenia had once again given Sylvestre the night off for a party; it meant that he did not have to attend her if he did not want to, although he decided to stay with her anyway. Last time she gave him the day off, it was for a ball where the murder happened, but she found herself trapped inside the estate house, and he was locked out. This celebration was taking place outside, so that would not be a problem, and she hoped that nothing went wrong.

Naenia did not carry any open weapons, although she was almost never unarmed. She wore a fur trimmed cloak, under which she had vest and trousers. Her dog heritage was not quite built for this sort of winter, and so she found that she was often cold. Attached to her hip under the cloak was a small dagger. Sylvestre was dressed in a similar manner to her as they made their way from the estate to where the bonfire was taking place. Her posture was proud as she walked, despite her low rank in the pack. She had never had to earn a rank like she had to here; her family name usually spoke for her. It would be an interesting experience.

<"This should be a fun night,"> Sylvestre told her in Spanish as the walked.

<"I hope so,"> Naenia agreed. Although there were many Krokar members here over the past few weeks, she did not have much interaction with them. In fact, the only Krokar member that she knowingly talked to was a youth with no trading experience, which she found to be a bit odd, given the pack it turned out he was from. Luckily they managed to get the guitar he was after; she was not sure how often an instrument would turn up at The Outpost.

<"At least the food will be good, and hopefully there will be wine,"> He continued and Naenia glanced at him from the corner of her eye. She sometimes wondered if he had a drinking problem, but it was not something she really wanted to bring up with him. It was his business, not hers, and so far it had not interfered with his ability to fulfill his duties. As their relationship was slowly shifting from employer and employee to friends, she was beginning to get more worried. Perhaps another time, she would ask him what was going on.

When they arrived at the North Shore beach, there was already a group of canines there. Naenia stopped behind them to listen to a shaggy female from Krokar speak. It was interesting to learn that this was their tradition, not Sapients, even though it was being held in Sapient. It seemed like a nice gesture to her, even if she would have preferred to have a celebration that was hosted inside, and out of the wind. Naenia's eyes scanned for Nivosus and Sylvester nudged her towards the food.

"You will be warmer if you eat, I think," he said, switching to accented English so that no one thought they were talking about them. Naenia learned soon after arriving that speaking in a language others did not understand tended to be seen as suspicious and neither of them wanted to risk that here.

"Yes you are probably right," Naenia agreed and the pair of them headed to where the food was set up. Sylvestre handed her a plate and as she filled it, Naenia spotted the young Krokaran she helped get the guitar at The Outpost. As Sylvester finished getting his own food, Naenia moved closer to Sylven.

"Hello, Sylven, how are you doing?" She asked. Hopefully his guitar was living up to all the fuss that happened over it.

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Luperci You sunk my battle ship! Home is not where you are from. It is where you belong. Some of us travel the whole world to find it. Others find it in a person.
I'm dangerous,
I'm warningyou—
but you're not afraid of me
and I can't convince you

POSTED: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:12 pm

Akantha was proud of all the work that had been accomplished between the two packs over the course of the cold Nova Scotian winter. Krokar and Sapient shared more than simple ideals, they also shared blood – and a similar goal that came with uniting the north. Semini was resplendent, as she had been since the birth of her children and Akantha looked forward to the joyous reunion they would have as the days of the Bon Fire grew closer. Her own children had come upon the cusp of their second week amongst the Sapiens, and she had grown accustomed to having them with her as she went about her duties. The trio fit comfortable in a basket, swaddled with Camellias gentle hands – and as she headed for the Bon Fire they were tucked together, each of their dark heads mewling quietly to one another.

She sometimes wondered if already they spoke to one another in this way, discussing the songs their mother sang to them, or the bumbling woman who shared Akanthas rooms. They were slowly opening their eyes to the world around them – though they were still small enough that they were unable to push themselves over the lips of the basket that held them. Odalis was often times the first to rouse herself to wakefulness, with the brothers following quickly behind. Her slow walk had them rocking gently against her hip – soon they would be too large to fit within the basket, and she would be forced to come up with some other way of transporting them – but the beaches of Sapient were a short meandering from the quiet Estate.

She could scent the many souls who now wandered their lands even from this distance, and as she brought the children over the cusp of the hill she couldn’t help the smile that slowly crawled to her features. The idea had started as a drunken thought between the two sisters, and now it had bloomed into something wonderful that had brought the packs strength. A child squalled, and she quieted them with a soft sound – slowly descending into the group who had gathered around the billowing flame of the bon fire. The air was thick with the scent of smoke and drink, and she dipped her head to those who greeted her as she passed – her shoulders thrust back proudly as some murmured to the children balanced against her hip.

She searched for Semini in the crowd, but instead found other familiar faces – her golden eyes lit brightly with affection for all those that celebrated. Lucille said her piece, and Akantha held her tongue – murring softly as she took up a vantage point from amongst the sand banks and beach-reeds.


Akantha Amaranthe

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fortune favors the bold

POSTED: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:27 pm

Semini Amaranthe
the world is not a cold dead place
Optime | Jan 31st, 2016 | Sapient Beach!

Semini didn't have much time anymore for sleeping, but when she did, she dreamed of swimming and her father's sailboat. These images faded in the wake of the day, slumbering in the visions of the conscious world. It wasn't until that evening, as she and Caoba made the slow journey to Sapient's grounds, that she began to associate the deep blues and foamy whites of her son and daughter with her memories of home.

"Your blood is strong," Caoba commented lightly as she cleaned the tiniest of the two. She had become much like family the past few weeks, and Semini was grateful that the darkly colored Onuban had chosen to stay. "They have your colors."

Semini was in the middle of tucking Lotan into the sling when she noticed the lifting of his tiny ears; and she looked up to the Robles dog with a great smile. "When you meet Nikita, you will see. We are both strong."

Caoba noticed the way the smile began to fray at the ends, and she made a soft noise to announce Tiamat's new clean state. Semini hurried to get the tiny troublemaker into the garment and promptly forgot the sadness in her heart.

It was a truly sad thing, the Robles dog thought, that Nikita had not been as reliable as the Amaranthe daughter had hoped. She had a plethora of excuses for the man; she blamed it on the distance, their duties, even snowfall, but in the end it was Caoba and Semini, and sometimes the strange Arena women, who cared for the children and not the Son of Wolf. "He's much my like father, you know," Semini had told her once, "A great sailor and a good man." And much like her father, he was in and out of her life.

As they came to the pack's celebrations, the thought of the father of her children receded in the warmth of the fire and the myriad of gathered faces. She greeted her people with friendly wags and clasped hands, and laughed and smiled freely. Caoba was there when the children became too restless - "Oh they're just like you!" Hazel quipped to Semini when the Robles dog lifted a squirming, noisy Tiamat from the sling. The twins were just entering their fifth week of life, and had begun their own little chattering sounds beyond the tiny mewls of need.

Semini met Lucille's speech with a holler and clapping. When the crowd had quieted, she scanned the faces of those she knew, and saw the golden one who sat apart from the rest. As she began to make her way towards her sister, a voice called her name.


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Luperci Angler, Carpenter, Striker Tusk Stubborn Love bbleeearrrrghhhhhh
salt water

POSTED: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:01 pm

It was a cold but clear day when the feast was to be held. Sylven had been looking forward to mingling with Krokar's neighbours for some time, knowing few Sapiens himself and being an outgoing sort of lad. The siamese pelted youth had never visited Sapient's territory before. He didn't want to get there too early, since he didn't really have a specific job to do, but he didn't want to miss the start of the festivities, either. The young Firebringer ended up leaving Krokar in the others' wake, and he arrived at the bonfire as Lucille was beginning to speak. She spoke of an alliance, the idea of which certainly interested the defender in training, and declared that the feast was to begin.

Syl clutched the neck of his guitar, the sole possession he had brought with him. It would be his way of contributing to the friendly atmosphere – adding music always seemed to help a party to get into the swing, and these days the boy was rarely seen without the instrument at his side, at his feet or in his hands.

He searched the gathered Luperci for a hint of Aphrodite's pale tresses or pale ocean eyes. The Donovan girl had been occupying his mind almost non-stop for weeks, now; Sylven wasn't sure he was quite ready to utter those iconic three words to her, but his crush was certainly developing into something beyond thinking she was beautiful.

It was another female who approached him – tall and solemn, Naenia had struck a chord with the Firebringer teen when she had stepped into a deal at the Outpost which had very nearly turned into a brawl. Sylven remained grateful for that act, which he believed was Naenia's way of showing kindness – and now, as she spoke to him, asking how he was, his ears leaned towards his head submissively and he grinned.

“I'm good.” He held the guitar up as the shadows of flames danced across a body which had significantly more lustre to it since Sylven had given it some tender loving care. “Thought it might add to the atmosphere. How've yu been, Naenia?”


POSTED: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:30 pm

Warning. Jealous, petty brat alert. Niv master of playing it cool and acting his age. [431]

Lingering in the background of festivities, he was content to be a wallflower, as the Barracuda herself had dubbed him in what felt like years ago. Hunkering into the comfort of his leather jacket, in a feeble attempt to find more warmth to fend the biting chill of the waters winds, pale eyes roamed freely from one clustered group to another, lingering on Semini and Akantha. Such a pretty sight, the pair of them together, truly an example of two sophisticated creatures in their own unique aspects. Oh, there was much temptation to head over their way and say hello, for the sisters were a delightfully intriguing pair, with one so fiery in nature and the other simply rolling with his sense of humour.

It was only for the fact that things appeared to have been going smoothly with the joint preparations for winter that he left them be, less he demolishes the festive mood; it had been a fantastic idea and the work benefited both parties rather nicely. More so than anything, there was something simply satisfying seeing so many gathered and getting along, the knowledge that Sapiens had friends, even if some of the relationships and bridges were still just foundations and concepts.

With sheer force of will, he curbed the temptation to go yank upon Semini’s chain, so to speak, casting his sights to the rest of the groups with only mild interest. That was until he sighted an all too familiar bull headed woman, to which was standing with a male unfamiliar to him and looking like they were having just a little too much fun. Seeing Nae with the stranger simply did not sit right with him and without lingering on the logic behind his motivation, the Sagax found himself upon his feet, long strides carrying him over to where the pair stood in discussion.

"So quick to ask me into your bed, yet here you are, jumping at the first chance to be showered in another man’s affections" the words were spoken suggestively and a complete lie, of course, his tone soft, voice carrying only to those who needed to hear. Serpentine eyes settled upon Nae, narrowing with evident intent to cause mayhem and completely unapologetic about the statement he just made.

"Good pick mate. She is fantastic between the sheets" lifting a hand, he reached out to pat the online male upon the back, turning on the spot and beginning to head off. With his back turned to the two, the thunderous look that darkened his expression remained hidden from the world, for now at least.

By the grace of the fire and the flames

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I'm just a snake
In the cold dark earth

POSTED: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:12 pm

OOC: I hope you enjoyed your life, Niv. Your time is limited. xD Naenia exits to this thread. WC: 431

"I've been well," Naenia told him. The guitar Sylven held looked almost like a different instrument than the one he took home with him from the outpost. It appeared that he not only played, but also knew how to make the instruments look good. Perhaps if the trader made it look like this in the first place, he could have gotten a second bottle of alcohol for it, too. It was good that he was clearly not interested in restoring instruments, or perhaps he simply did not know what it was worth, either.

"The guitar is looking good," she told him with a small smile and an almost approving look. She did not often give out complements, but she felt like this deserved one. The Onuban enjoyed seeing canines take pride in their work, as she did with her blade. Since Sylven was young, she was previously not entirely convinced that he had the passion to take good care of the guitar he traded for, just because he could play it. She was glad to see that he did.

She was about to say something else when a new voice joined the conversation. Naenia started to smile when she recognized that it was Nivosus, but it instantly faded as his words sunk in. Naenia's back straightened and her eyes narrowed as she swung around to look at him. How dare he say something like that? There was no reason to spread that sort of lie. Sure, he said it quietly, but what if someone else still heard? Naenia did not want that sort of a reputation. As she glared at him, she saw the expression on his face and her lip curled in a snarl when he addressed Sylven. What exactly did he think was going on here? And why did he even care? Who she spoke to was none of his business.

<"Excuse me?"> Naenia said, falling back to her native Spanish in her surprise, but it was too late. Nivosus was already walking away. She growled, curling her hands into tight fists before relaxing them. Then she turned back to Sylven. "Excuse me, Sylven. I need to go have a little chat with my leader." Her accented voice was calm in an eerie way, contrasting her stiff, clearly angry posture. Her hands formed fists again as she swung back around and stormed off in Nivosus's wake. She itched to draw a weapon on him, but that would likely be pushing things too far. In any case, his ears were going to be ringing when she was through with him.

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Luperci You sunk my battle ship! Home is not where you are from. It is where you belong. Some of us travel the whole world to find it. Others find it in a person.
I'm dangerous,
I'm warningyou—
but you're not afraid of me
and I can't convince you

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