I am working on the concept of my character, Elias, who initially comes from New Orleans. I have recently decided that I wish for him to have a companion in either the form of a raccoon or an alligator. Now for simplicities sake I’m leaning towards the raccoon, but I haven’t entirely discarded the idea of having an alligator following him either. I know what you’re thinking: Alligators in Canada? Before you discard this idea offhand as being foolish understand that I have done my research, and alligators are much sturdier then you might believe, existing as far north as southern North Carolina.
As coldblooded they can’t survive in cold places, and during the winters they hibernate underground in “gator holes”, as they are unable to hunt efficiently for food. The winters in Canada are obviously far too cold for an alligator to normally survive, but what if my character was to intercede, constructing a habitat warm enough for the alligator to hibernate in during the winters. I don’t believe that there are any major hindrances to an alligator’s existence in Nova Scotia other than the winter, as there are a variety of wetlands and small lakes scattered around the landscape, and a variety of fauna sufficient to help sustain such creatures. So my question is twofold.
Firstly I would like the opinions of others on the likelihood of an alligator surviving in Canada, even with the support of my character. Secondly, I would like opinions on how my character could go about creating an underground environment warm enough to sustain an alligator through the winter. Depending on the reviews I get here I may just scrap the idea altogether and just go with the raccoon.
if your character lived where a hot spring, or warm spring was the gator could live in the warm spring in the winter.. the water is always 72 degrees.. so.. as long as your character fed it.. i could see it technically surviving..
Actually I never even considered that. Considering I also want my character to live in Anathema where there is a large series of undergound caves, I could certianly see a hot spring appearing somewhere in the area.
- I think it would be veeeery difficult for an adult alligator to travel such distance without assistance. D: I think it would be most plausible for your character to have obtained a young/baby alligator and carried it north. Alligators do walk on land, but it becomes difficult for them to move on land the bigger they are ( source.) Crocs are also more suited to land travel than alligators, I believe. x:
- Alligators DO speak high speech, yes, as they are a major predator, but the differences between mammalian high speech and reptilian high speech is like the difference between English with the accent you're used to, and broken English with an extremely heavy accent from halfway around the world. While you may understand one word in five, communication will be veeeery difficult.
- Additionally, I think, if you do decide to go forward with this, it would be best to craft an amiable friendship between the two animals rather than like, treating the alligator as a pet. I ran into the same issue with Eris's cougar -- a smart animal that is capable of physically challenging a Luperci is not going to take kindly to being treated like a pet. They should look upon each other as friends and equals rather than the gator being subservient to your character.
- The wintering information you've given there is plausible, I think? There are hotspots (Inferni's hot springs, for one).
All of the above said, I think it would be easier and more plausible to go with a smaller lizard -- e.g., there are some decently-sized lizards in the southern U.S. and Mexico -- or the raccoon idea. c: <3 Hope that helps!
I want to know how you are getting the alligator. Why would they choose to stick with your character? After all gators are slated to know high speech naturally which means that they have intelligence. So why you the gator wish to follow your character and not stay in its natural habitat? How could it make the travel? Would it be forced to walk the whole way? If by boat then would it be likely to charter something with accommodations for the gator? How often does it need to feed or eat and how would that end up slowing down the process of getting up here? It is already cold now so is it still making the journey when it is meant to be hibernating? After all travel time needs to be taken into account. With that travel time there is also the speed of the gator to figure out, what pace do they keep and how far can they move before they must rest or feed? Consider the path that is taken, are there water sources for the gator along the way or do they not need water so badly that they can easily travel long distances without submerging themselves?
Actually, I have already mapped out a semicomplex sequence of events as to just how my character managed to bring a alligator into Nova Scotia. Elias, having lived in the bayous of Louisiana just outside the city of New Orleans for the majority of his life, will have had frequent run ins with alligators. It is also plausible, considering that he is much more educated then the normal "feral" luperci, that he might have experimented in teaching himself at least the rudiments of communication with said alligators. I never intended to keep the alligator as a pet, hence the usage of the word companion. I intend for my character to gradually spark a relationship with this alligator that will eventually culminate in a freindship, with each one lloking out for the others back. As for how I actually got the alligator from point A to point B, it would for obvious reasons be ridiculous for an alligator to travel all the way to Nova Scotia from Louisiana by land in ny timely fashion. However, if I recall correctly the Souls RPG Guide points out that there is a very convienient port in New Orleans, eventually leading to Barbados which in turn has a route leading to Freetown just south of Souls. I intend to also have my charactr live for about a year in the Jamacia-Haiti islands bordering this route with an extension of his family, so he would be well aquanted with ships and have a variety of usefull contacts with which to use. On top of this, having been the head of a signifacantly large family of luperci who may be considered "wealthy" in the most rudimentary terms, he would have a reasonable amount of resourced to call upon to charter such vessels. Also, as the route borders the equator it would be reasonable that they would have ships catering to such exotic pets as alligators. The route north would probably cost more and be extensively far more difficult, but I believe it to be possible. In terms of the encroaching cold, Elias is going to be searching for a pack with access to hot springs are areas near hotsprings such as Anathema, and while he may be on time constraints as long as he doesn't take more than a week to find a location for the gator to hibernate, it is plausible it would survive.
But did you take into account the size of the ship itself that would be used? Would there be room for your character, the gator, the crew, any other passengers, plus any supplies needed? What about food? How much does the gator need to eat? What will your character do if it decides to eat the crew in order to supplement its diet? After all ship rides can take months and so you need food enough to cover the whole trip while you are at sea and can't simply hunt. Then there is the thought that ships don't just leave every single day but schedule days to leave ports so you will want wiggle room for that as well just to caution on the side of realism. Also currency isn't something really used on this side of the world but is more of a European thing. This side still mainly uses the barter system so the idea of wealth fluctuates depending on what is needed and who possesses it. So I really wouldn't work the wealth aspect because of that. But that is my personal take on it since there isn't a set system in place. Then once you get in you have to consider travel time. You aren't making a week from the time of the port to even the 'Souls area. You come up from northern US and that is already 18 days, so there goes your week and then some. Not to mention you have to factor in near about another day to travel across Nova Scotia to where Anathema is at. And that is only at the pace that a luperci can go. So depending on the speed that the gator can travel that may end up taking even longer.
This idea reminds me of Lake Placid. Which had giant Alligators (or Crocs..I can't remember for sure :x) in Maine (again not positive but yea..). Of coarse we all know how movies rely on realism lol, so yea...nothing useful to add xD
[html] I think this sounds like a really well thought out plan! As long as you consider travel time, this shouldn't be a problem. In addition, I think the most important aspect of this whole alligator thing is the life the 'gator lives once it is here. I don't know much about the geography of Nova Scotia (or the geography of anywhere, if I'm being honest!), but it looks like you've planned that well in Anathema. Anyway, I don't have much to add besides I think this is a super cool idea and I'd love to thread with a character with an alligator! I love seeing original ideas come in, don't get discouraged by overthinking logistics too much!  [/html]
Re: Food: Alligators feed mostly on "tadpoles, frogs, snails, crabs, shrimps, and small fishes in increasing numbers as the animals approach a size of 1 meter (3 feet) or more". Their diet also changes in accordance to habitat. Not only this, but crocodilians (such as alligators) don't actually hunt, they wait for the food to come to them.
The above excerpt is from the book Crocodiles and Alligators, in the Food and Feeding habits section, written by Tony Pooley. As is this one, coming up.
| QUOTE ("Crocodiles and Alligators") |
The crocodilian digestive system is remarkable for several reasons. Firstly, the stomach is the most acidic recorded for any vertebrate, allowing the crocodilian to digest all the bone it consumes. Secondly, about 60 percent of the energy contained in the food it eats is stored away as fat in the tail, in mesenteric organs in the abdomen, along the back, and almost anywhere it can be stored. Even some of the energy contained in protein is converted to fat in crocodilians.
This allows crocodilians to survive for exceptionally long periods with no food at all. A newly hatched crocodile can survive for more than four months without eating, by using the fat from the remains of the yolk sac tucked away in its belly. A large crcodile, which may weigh more than 1 tonne, can probably last up to two years between meals. Alligators and some crocodiles regularily fast through the cooler months but the larger animals probably need to eat little even during the summer, provided they do not waste too much energy on breeding.
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Also, since young alligators feed mostly on insects, small fish and amphibians, I can easily see Elias having a young alligator and feeding it insects he caught/raised. Not only that, but if it trusted him enough, he could keep it close to his body and keep it warm through his body heat.
I agree with Rosie. I think this is a really neat idea. I love reptiles, so I would think it would be awesome if Elias had an alligator as a companion.
And I love the movie Lake Placid 8D
@Bastion
As stated before, Elias is a local to the New Orleans-Haitian-Jamaican ports so he would be familiar with the routine merchant ships, and could probably prearrange passage with ease, or just wait it out until a ship arrives. Finding a ship and a captain willing to take on an alligator in Barbados might be more difficult, but if Elias were to contact one of those same routine merchant captains and use him to prearrange a voyage with one of the other merchant captains local to Barbados, I don’t see any difficulties arising. In the same tone Elias himself could make a round trip to Barbados to arrange passage, but it might offer more complications and would most probably take longer.
In terms of wealthiness I did not mean currency. Elias has access to a variety of eccentric goods and contacts that might not be available to other ordinary luperci. He was also a very prominent member of New Orleans’s occult society, and possessing the traits of a mystic he might also offer his knowledge in charms and spells to further sway the captain, particularly if he is superstitious. Although I must admit that I plan to have Elias more infamous then famous, so there will probably be a large amount of negativity going against him as well if his identity is ever discovered.
In terms of the alligator eating the crew, as you yourself pointed out it has intelligence. What reason would it have to do such a thing other than if another individual was attacking it or purposefully thought to impose harm? Is it not just as likely that any other passengers on the ship might be just as dangerous if not more so? We can thank Haley for eliminating the starvation aspect, although I really don’t think it is that much of a problem. If the vessel is heading towards Freetown it is most likely a merchant ship, and if it is any sort of decent merchant ship it will make at least one stop along the way to exchange goods. Elias can use this time to restock for his companion or even simply hunt, and the only plausible situation I can see in which the ship would run low on food is if it got caught in a series of hurricanes and somehow got blown off course, in which case food is the least of the crew’s worries.
Even taking into account that the travel to Anathema might take up to two to three days, Elias can still construct fires and wrap the alligator in cloth to help it survive exposure to the cold. Also, in terms of food it may be uncomfortable but not impossible for the alligator to abstain from eating for such a short time. Will it may certainly be simpler for Elias to bring a baby crocodile, it is conceivable to bring an adult one up if one is willing to spend the proper amount of time necessary to arrange it. Also, as a side note, in terms of age alligators outlive luperci, so I see no reason why that should come into play.
@Haley
Thank you for the additional information, that really solved a lot of the flaws with my plan. I also vaugely remember hearing something about that but sadly I had forgotten,
@Everyone Else
Thank you for the encouragement and advice, I owe a large part of composing this plan to the comments I recieved here.
You still have spoken nothing on the girth of the alligator and the space it will take up on the ship. This is a major factor. If you are on a merchant ship it is already loaded with cargo. The alligator is unable to stand on two legs and therefore will take up more room than luperci will. this seems to be something that you are refusing to think about. And I know I said they are intelligent but they are also predators, it must kill to eat. A bear is intelligent as well but it is still likely to kill luperci for food. If you stick opposing predators together they aren't likely to get along. So what does stop the alligator from killing those it isn't on friendly terms with just so it can have food in its belly? You do what you have to in order to survive. And like you said, what is to stop others from trying to kill the alligator in turn? Certainly there will be some to think the skin would fetch them something in return. Also alligators are solitary creatures so have you even factored in how it will feel about being surrounded by other predators? Alligators aren't social so how will it deal in a confined space and forced to be around others rather than being able to retreat by itself and be alone? And I knew that alligators were long living so age was never a factor, it has always been size because they easily grow to be ten feet long. And there is no stop between Barbados and Freetown is you care to study the map again. It is straight from Barbados up to Freetown so you aren't stopping anywhere else to pick up supplies but just have to go with whatever is first packed on the ship, which would inevitably have to be less stuff since you have an adult alligator on board taking up the space. And then you of course have o take into account the size of the caves and tunnels themselves and if they will afford to let the gator through. because just like the ship that gator is taking up space that normally could have been used for other things since I doubt the alligator will be pleased with being stepped on. I think you are failing to remember that this is a big ass animal that you are trying to move and it can't just be picked up and carried around.
Forgive my misinterpretation of the map, I was not thinking correctly. You are right, there are no ports to hit along the route from Barbados to Freetown, but if one were to charter passage to Freetown from New Orleans, it would actually be considerably more concievalbe. True, it would not be easy to find a ship willing to make the full trip, but it would be possible to “leap frog” up the coast from one port to the other. I still believe that Elias would be able to find a ship willing to carry him at least halfway up the coast, and as for the nature of the merchant ships, I concede that regular merchant ships are not accommodated to carry livestock much less a full grown alligator. However, there are ships built for that very purpose, and as I stated before, it is reasonable to assume that many of the vessels passing through New Orleans would be accommodated to carrying such exotic creatures as alligators being located next to the equator.
As for why the alligator would not be targeted for attack, you have already answered that question yourself. An alligator is a big ass animal, with extremely tough skin, and while its average land speed may be slow it is more than capable of sprinting small distances. Also take into account that this alligator is a veteran at fighting other predators, and is accompanied by a wolf renowned for his skill with knives and who has a reputation for leaving trails of body wherever he goes. Now place this combat in the middle of the confined space of a ship and presto, you have one dead corpse and a very happy alligator with a meal.
Also, by stating that the alligator will attack other luperci simply for food you are assuming that it is a simpleminded beast. The alligator has already been exposed to luperci via Elias, and so will it may not be on good terms with luperci is certainly acclimated enough to not attack luperci on sight simply due to the fact that they are a separate species. It has also already discussed and given consent to Elias to arrange this voyage for it, so it knows what to expect and is going to be on its very best behavior. In terms of personal space, the alligator may very well get agitated if it is pestered frequently, but Elias is going to be dissuading others from approaching him. If Elias has prearranged the voyage he could have paid the captain to acquire provisions for the trip, are at the very least acquired such provisions in the port in advance. So it is not like you are sticking an alligator onto a ship with no food to feed it.
As for the caves of Anathema, the alligator is not going to constantly wander these tunnels. It is hibernating, and as such will remain in one spot for the entirety of the winter. Anyways, I am assuming if there is hot spring cavern within the caverns of Anathema, it will either be located separately from the normal caves, or will be in an area not normally used by the Anathema members.
Again, you are back to adding ports where there are none. Don't you think if there were more ports that the trip up from Barbados would visit them rather than take such a long journey? You are continually adding stuff to fit your whim to make this work rather than abiding by what is already there. And just because it is used to one form of luperci does not mean it is civil to all. Look at the characters on the board. There was just a war between luperci. Just because they are all luperci didn't stop the fighting. So yes, it is logical to still assume that the gator might still think of others as food and save one that isn't. After all there is continually feuds between coyotes and wolves with both of them being canines. You easily assume that because it can be tethered to one that it will not wish to kill another. I simply can't say that would be the absolute truth. And have you looked into the few ships that are available for use? You can't just make up some other kind of ship to suit your whims because luperci aren't that advanced, especially not on this side of the world. Your larger, more technical ships, would come from the other side of the world and not over this way. You aren't coming from Europe so you are limited in the number of advances that you can have. So? Just because it is large doesn't mean it won't be hunted. It just means it would be more difficult to hunt. And I really can't stand you assuming that you would automatically win any fight that came up, that right there reeks of GMing to me. You are talking about a confined space, either party could pick up the advantage since you only have so much room to move. Then you have to factor in times for sleep and any other things which are unpredictable. So I wouldn't say it would work 100% in your favor if it were worked out realistically. You are just making your character more powerful and that won't work in a cohesive setting. You have to have some flaws and can't win all of the time. That is unless you are counting your wolf as being the dead party in which the alligator can still have food and be happy. And I'm not assuming simple mindedness but the mind of a predator. Again, confined space. If you don't have food readily available whenever it is hungry then it will need to kill whatever is closest in order to eat. That is just the way that survival works. And what is to stop members from visiting the hot springs? It is winter and they may wish a place to get away from the chill of the caves so that right there would make it advisable to go to the hot springs. So now you are preventing everyone from going to a landmark that was already there just because you want to house the gator? Are you going to show up in every thread at the hot springs in order to say, 'Hey, my gator is here so you can't be.' and if not then how are you going to control things and make sure that people run into the gator whenever they visit? And for that matter how would you feel about others controlling the gator just because they wish to have their thread set at the hot springs?
I dont see a reason for the alligator to dont be able to survive in Anathema hot springs, thought they are a communal place and we must take in consideration that a hungry alligator may forget that wolves are "friends."
Also you must decide if others may be able to control it when they visit the hot springs in Anathema or either ask permission from the leadership for your character to find another hot spring apart from the communal and set your aligator in there.
First off, the east coast of America is huge, and there is bound to be at least one minor port in between Freetown and New Orleans. The map only lists major ports that are used frequently, not the various minor ports and communities that may line the coast between routes. However, traveling along the coast would conceivably take much longer then traveling straight to Freetown from Barbados, as the ship may fall prey to pirates and hurricanes as well as other miscellaneous difficulties making the route unreliable and dangerous for most luperci.
Secondly, why do you assume that the alligator does not have food readily accessible? Have I not explained already the unlikelihood of an alligator boarding a ship without the necessary provisions? I also find your description of continual luperci aggression on ships to be inaccurate. Yes, many of the other passengers on such a vessel may very well be aggressive or racist in some form, but they are not going to be breaking into fights every ten seconds. If this were the reality then why would ship captains allow passenger to board at all? If any violence were to break out it is probable that the ship’s crew would at least attempt to intervene, forcibly ejecting the aggressors if they found the need to do so.
Yes the alligator may not like every luperci it sees, but once again I see no plausible reason for it to attack unless it was being repeatedly antagonized or annoyed by another ship passenger or crew member, in which case Elias would almost certainly intervene. As for another luperci seeking to acquire the alligator’s pelt, bear in mind that the alligator is more than capable enough of defending itself, and any conflict will inevitably involve Elias. As to my apparent GM’ing, I did not mean to give off that appearance. I simply find it unlikely that a single individual is capable of fighting simultaneously against a full-grown alligator and a veteran warrior and surviving without any injury whatsoever. If that is not GM’ing I don’t know what is
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As for the mindset of the alligator on the ship, I admit it would be agitated due to the lack of space. It very well may grow more aggressive as the journey progresses, and may take a few snaps at other passengers, but I am confident Elias would be able to restrain it. As to the nature of the vessels, I have already stated my view on the vessels that populate the area around the equator, regardless if they are sophisticated or not. Even if Elias does embark on a voyage with a regular merchant ship, the facts still work against your argument. Less space means fewer passengers, if any, to harass the alligator, and will it may be annoyed, and it will be confined.
And finaly in regards to the hot springs, I am perfectly willing with others incorporating the alligator into their threads, as long as they do not openly seek to harm it. Hell, if it comes to it I’ll make it a communal companion so to speak, with regards that in the spring/summer seasons it returns to my control.
You are forgetting all about water currents. that is why the routes are planned out as they are. Those are where the currents are easiest to manage, though still have their own share of difficulties. And I never said it would be one on one. You are making your character wanted so in all likelihood those with bad blood with him would seek to take vengeance where space is limited. If you have a group after you character then he would unlikely be able to fend them off where there is little room to maneuver. And I didn't say that all were like that. I was just explaining that hey, species matters very little for what might be attacked or killed. And I didn't say it wouldn't be available just like you never said that it would be on hand either. Generally passengers don't ride where the cargo is kept. That is unless you are keeping your gator in a cargo hold. I am just giving out factor that can come up since it seems you haven't thought out everything but just started on 'ooo... this is a nifty idea!' rather than doing adequate research first. Also, how quickly can a gator turn and attack those whom are behind it when it is placed in a confined space? These all all things to think about. Just think, there is negativity surrounding your character and you don't want his identity out then that is going to be hard to do with a gator. Just think about it, how many others are going to be walking around with one? That right there would blow any sort of cover you are hoping to have. I really believe you need to think through all aspects of this a bit more. So while the idea in itself is possible if thought out thoroughly it really isn't plausible. I would go with what the Sie said and try for something smaller.
Have you given any thought to the age and size of the gator? Looking over the discussion I didn't really see anything other than 'Adult', which still gives you a huge range in size.
Something else to consider as well is the life span of the gator, imo, as it will vastly out live any single Luperci companion. So perhaps if you want your character to have a stronger influence on the gator (as far as not being so aggressive towards others and such) than perhaps it could have been 'tied' to Elias's family for generations? I have no idea if that fits at all into your character history, just throwing it out there. But I think it would give a stronger foundation for the bond between your character and the gator, especially if its an older, larger gator.
[html]Crikey guys, I think you should just let the man have his dinosaur 'gator! I believe any problems can be worked around, he's obviously thought long and hard about this and knows what he's doing xD Just throwing my two cents in. Don't kill me D8 [/html]
A member of the 'SA, whom will be one of the ones reviewing the application, has pretty much already said for him to go a different route. I would do what the 'SA says. Plus i never asked the most important question of all. Why is the gator moving in the first place? It isn't going to wait until the calendar says it is winter to hibernate but when it starts getting cold. It has already done that. It already should be sleeping or at least preparing for it. So why is it taking a long boat trip when it knows it is at its most vulnerable time? That would make no sense at all. So honestly the gator shouldn't even be traveling as hibernation preparations should be under way. So the time of the year to try and move it really doesn't work logically.
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